Roll bar and harnesses??

[NoLift911]

What are people doing for using 5pt harnesses with a rollbar and no harness bar or cross bar? Can you attach to the seat belt mounting points?

I have the Recaro shells (SPG)...my rollbar setup looks like this:

(Thanks for the pic GeorgeK)



-Jeff

[IROC]

My roll bar has a cross bar, but I only use it to guide the harnesses. I attach my shoulder harnesses to the rear seat belt attach points and simply run them up over the cross bar and through the seats.

It appears your dilemma is how to support the harnesses as they'll need some sort of cross bar to prevent compression injuries, etc.

Mike

[Dixie]

You could get a cross bar welded in. It's not like someone can use the back seat with those funny legs going to the tunnel.

Also, who makes that bar? Why does it have so many weld seams?

[Grady Clay]

Jeff,

I would start with a completely new roll bar - harness bar – seat back support. The one in your car probably won’t (or shouldn’t) pass tech in many organizations. It certainly won’t pass SCCA and implied in PCA. The issue is that the main hoop is required to be from one piece of tubing.

Proper roll bar design & installation, seat mounting and seat belt mounting have been carefully thought out by the various racing organizations. You should follow those requirements.

I would only use the SCCA specifications in this .pdf document (5.2M)
SCCA GCR Section 18, GCR pages 97-118.

SCCA now requires a cage. If you insist your roll bar be built or bought using SCCA specifications, your body will have a better chance. The GCR is written as an evolving document and it necessarily allows older designs. Whenever possible use the latest “recommendations.” Also keep in mind that these are “minimum” requirements. There is benefit to exceeding the minimum requirements.

It’s your neck!

Best,
Grady

[lateapex911]

Grady is right. If you are going that far, you need to understand what it is that you are doing. Belt specs are very important. Dale Earnhart died in a pretty minor crash, simply because his belts were not installed to Simpsons specs and requirements. (And everyone knew about it)

SCCA is the defacto standard by which most other organizations take their safety cues. Their rule book, as Grady pointed out, is the best source. Your cage is very unusual, and the strap installation needs to be done properly.

Make sure the straps are properly rated and meet certification standards as well, and follow the instructions implicitly.

I would start with a better roll structure, with a cross bar at the proper height, and tie the belts to that. Going over and then down is probaly legal, but will result in 5 times the stretch in an incident.

[nostatic]

what they said. Don't jury-rig your safety gear.

[cbeers]

Not to hijack, but Jake, can you tell me more about the Dale crash?
Or a link?

I guess I am out of it, I never heard anything about improper set up. Then again, I don't follow Nascar

Back to your regular programming......

-Chris

[strupgolf]

Yes, Dale Sr. didnt like his belts tight---and he didnt have them arranged like they should have been--thus having his body go where it should'nt have. It probably has been written up somewhere, but I cant think where right now, sorry.

[lateapex911]

Yea, I can't find the source now, it's been a few years. I remember being absolutely shocked when I heard he died, and WHY he died. It was a pretty "common" crash.

If anyone is to blame of course, it was him. He wanted the belts the way he wanted them, and nobody could tell him differently. Simpson himself inspected and begged him to change them, but no dice.

NASCAR could have drawn the line, but honestly, they have JUST gotten up to the same specs lil ole SCCA has been using for a while now. NASCAR makes a lot of noise about safety, but it's been a long time coming.

The whole thing with Simpson was pretty sad...all the NASCAR morons calling him and threatening him over Dales death. I lost more respect for the "Great NASCAR fans" over that incident. "Fan" comes from "Fanatic"...and I can tell you, I never want to be called a "fanatic" over my love and admiration for something like that. They are seriously blind to the facts. Those "fans" should be ashamed.

I'm glad I am not a NASCAR star (not that I have any talent, LOL) and don't have to kiss those asses, LOL.

Dale's death was COMPLETELY avoidable, and NASCAR really shot themselves in the foot by "looking the other way". Sadly though, if they've changed their way, it's not to protect their drivers, it's to protect their investments, and their future.

[TRE Cup]

That cage is aluminum, isn't it?
nice paperweight - NOT a roll bar i would ever trust to save me
Lose it and get the right thing

[cbeers]

I see. That's sad to hear

Thanks guys, I always wondered about that crash and could never understand how he could have died from that alone.......

Back to Jeff's post.

-Chris

[ZOA NOM]

Dale died from a "basilar skull fracture" which resulted from a violent whip forward of his head upon impact with the wall. It basically ripped the spine from the base of his brain. Speculation is that a HANS device would have prevented the injury. I thought the crash was pretty routine, too, and couldn't see how it could have killed him until I heard the autopsy report.

[lateapex911]

yes, but there were significant issues with the placement of the belts and the application. There was significant "discussion" and NASCAR was very heavy handed in it's release of information.

Lawsuits, fingerpointing, backstabbing..long time friendships were lost..it was ugly. But the NASCAR marketing machine marched on and spun it well.

Would a HANS have saved him? (Or an Isaac?) Well not if the belts weren't tight and in the right places.....

[ZOA NOM]

Hence the word "speculation". There is no question about the basilar fracture.

[NoLift911]

Thanks for the info guys.