Need Ideas/Suggestions for a new track in Colorado! Check it out!

[klober23]

I have been looking to buy a house and some land the past few months around Fort Collins, Colorado. In talking to many Porsche and general car enthusiasts in the area, there are no/not many tracks within 3-4 hours. So heres the deal. I am looking for some land, and need lots of imput and suggestions! Road Course? Circle Course? How long around?????? What materials would make a worthy track surface? Please post some designs..quick drawings, or anything you see fit. I would love to host Porsche enthusiast/PCA fun events! I think this idea has real potential in this area. Track would be open to anyone, of course would regulate driver experience and car types allowed on the track at a time. I am very serious, but need some imput. How many acres should I look for? I have been to many tracks, but have not drove on very many..this is where you experienced drivers come in! Whats fun? This is not going to be multi-million dollar NASCAR track, but just something nice/ safe enough to have fun on. I would like a scenic but safe track...some cool landscaping, but also safe run-off areas. I have been mostly driving around areas I like, talking to people with houses/land for sale, but this week I will seek the assistance of a realtor. I also need to research zone laws..as not everyone would welcome a track next door . Throw in your 2 cents! Help me out even if you are not in the area. We can get a decent track in beautiful Fort Collins, where your Porsche can breath fresh air. I need ideas and designs.

[zotman72]

If you are serious, get in touch with the Colorado Motorsports council. Or specifically contact our local PCA region prez (pca.org/rmr) and he (Andy) will put you in touch with the right people. We need to go east to the plains around Limon as the NIMBY issues have ruined chances for anything on the Front Range. HTH

[klober23]

Zotman- Thanks for the great info! Something I needed to know! I will do as you said, I will send Andy a e-mail tonight. Thanks! Still need other track input pelicans!

[klober23]

I have sent a e-mail to Andy Forberg RMR President, to start discussion of a Colorado track. Will discuss information and updates here. Lets get some ideas!

[Tim Stevens]

Changes in elevation are a must – fun to drive and great for viewing. Check out these two tracks that are close to me. Barbers - http://www.barbermotorsports.com/trackmaps.php and TGPR – probably more along what you are talking about doing http://www.tgprace.com/ . The great thing about TGPR is that there is a ton of run off – no concrete barriers to hit (besides the pit wall) just a bunch of grass to slow you down if you go off. The one thing the locals do not like about the track is the track surface. Good Luck and keep us posted

BTW Barber cost over 50 million to build

[Emission]

You are going to need some land. Buttonwillow, one track near me, has a 334 acre site for their 3.0 mile track - granted that is pretty big.

You will also need millions to grade and pave your own 3.0 mile "road"... I'm supporting you, but it's a huge hill to climb!

[Brant]

The problem is a million dollar question now...
you will find that although your intentions are great... it is tough to get zoneing and adequate space however great your intentions...

figure roughly 2 million paving (maybe 2.5 mill) for a track

plus figure on buying twice or 4x+ the land you need in order to meet noise limits...

its a very noble plan
but a tough one to follow through upon.

brant

[jwerion]

I also live in Northern Colorado and would love to see something happen any where between Denver and the Wyoming boarder. I have given this alot of thought my self and I think the perfect place to build a track is along hwy 85 or I-76 near a small town looking for commercial development. This is close to Denver and Northern Coorado and has easy access from I-70 & I -80. If you can put some numbers together to prove how much business a track would bring to thier community you would eventually find a town to welcome a track with open arms. For instance Plattville is 45 minutes from Ft. collins and 45 minutes to down town Denver yet they are not busting at seams with growth like most towns near denver or Loveland-Ft. Collins. My accountant lives there and says the city is looking for ways to grow and bring business to town.

At this point there are no plans that I am aware of for a new track here in Colorado. The CAMA association(a group mostly comprised of the areas motorsports clubs) has been trying to put something together for several years now but from what I hear they are disorganized and have to many chiefs to get anything done and more importantly no money. They did have a deal with Centrix financial to pay for the track and lease back to CAMA but I guess the guys running CAMA screwed it up by making 40 pages of demands and Centrix lost interest.

I would be interested in helping you in anyway I can, Just let me know. I also have a good friend who is a commercial realtor with the group and may have some good contacts for some land. E-mail me if you like. jwerion@aol.com
Justin

[porschenut]

It should be a road course at least 1.5 miles in length with a 1/2-mile straight and elevation changes. My guess is you'll need a half section of land to include parking and paddock area.

I've been keeping in touch with the group that's looking for a potential track location, and from what I've learned there's absolutely no chance of building a track anywhere near a residential area or an area where there may be future development. Towns and NIMBYs simply won't permit it. Your only chance is to build one way out in the middle of nowhere, which is why CAMA is now looking way out on the eastern plains for a location. They already had found two locations and after spending nearly a million dollars, failed to get zoning approval for noise reasons even though there wasn't a house within miles.

[cegerer]

From a similar venture, although many of the costs (spectator facilities, etc.) would not apply. Big $$$.

The design then was being done by Wilson Motorsports out of Colorado surveying by Forgren Associates:

50 Acres priced at $7000 per acre.... 357k
Evacuation and Grading.....400k
Racetrack Paving ....780 k
Paddock Paving .....552K
Spectator Paving .....37.5 K
Survey ....7.5k
Geo Survey 6k
Track civil engineering .....65k
Sewer ....18.5k
Gravel areas ....60k
Pedestrian Bridge 120' and 100'....... 80k
Grandstand seating..... 375k
Billboards and signage .....55k
hydroseed tracks and berside .....95k
scoreboard and timing/signaling .....50k
Paddock Buildings..... 400k
Paddock Garages..... 550k
Management costs ....192k
Electrical Costs .....150k
Barriers and fencing.....120k
pedestrian underpass....84k
Fencing and cables
Pa system 30k

[klober23]

Great help guys! This information is a must. I have a close friend that maybe able to pull some strings in the near by area...I know he has plenty of clout. I will try to talk to him in the next few days and see what he thinks...I think I know a perfect area, where nobody would complain about a track, although I am not completely sure. I know a guy that owns 33K acres...maybe we could build in the middle of that? Keep the ball rollin...we will see if we can't pull something off. Thanks guys Jesse

[klober23]

Originally posted by cegerer
From a similar venture, although many of the costs (spectator facilities, etc.) would not apply. Big $$$.

The design then was being done by Wilson Motorsports out of Colorado surveying by Forgren Associates:

50 Acres priced at $7000 per acre.... 357k
Evacuation and Grading.....400k
Racetrack Paving ....780 k
Paddock Paving .....552K
Spectator Paving .....37.5 K
Survey ....7.5k
Geo Survey 6k
Track civil engineering .....65k
Sewer ....18.5k
Gravel areas ....60k
Pedestrian Bridge 120' and 100'....... 80k
Grandstand seating..... 375k
Billboards and signage .....55k
hydroseed tracks and berside .....95k
scoreboard and timing/signaling .....50k
Paddock Buildings..... 400k
Paddock Garages..... 550k
Management costs ....192k
Electrical Costs .....150k
Barriers and fencing.....120k
pedestrian underpass....84k
Fencing and cables
Pa system 30k

This is something good to go off of! Thanks ...like you said, all the buildings and not a must

[jwerion]

Jesse, You will need way more than 30 or 40 acres to build a decent track of at least 2 miles in length. A good facility needs to have more like 100-130 acres plus you need land to creat a buffer zone around it so it does not get squeezed out by future development. 300-400 acres would be best but perhaps not practical given the cost. With 300-400 acres you could develop a true motorsports park offering something for a variety of motorsports and perhaps turn it into a nice profitable business. Good luck and please keep us informed of your progress good or bad.

[Rob Channell]

From what I have seen and read about local tracks and the Barber Motorsports complex, politics, sound restrictions, and land use laws (requiring green space) will be the largest hurdles.

[klober23]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jwerion
Jesse, You will need way more than 30 or 40 acres to build a decent track of at least 2 miles in length. A good facility needs to have more like 100-130 acres plus you need land to creat a buffer zone around it so it does not get squeezed out by future development. 300-400 acres would be best but perhaps not practical given the cost. With 300-400 acres you could develop a true motorsports park offering something for a variety of motorsports and perhaps turn it into a nice profitable business. Good luck and please keep us informed of your progress good or bad. [/QUOTE

lol...jwerion 33K = 33,000 acres. 33,000 (51.56 sq miles) acres is not enough? I know you mis-read...but I had to pick on ya I know I can get it to fly with that much of barrier...we could build it right in the middle of 33K acres. Jesse

[Netspeed]

Check out the new Riverside Motorsports Park. www.rmpracing.com
They are in the midst of getting approvals to build the track in Merced, CA. I think the biggest obstacles to overcome (pricewise too) are going to be all the local and regional redtape from the various agencies.

There are email contacts on their website and they should be able to give you some insight into the logistics.

[jwerion]

Jesse, Yes my mistake. I think 33,000 acres will do just fine(holy cow). In fact if you can't get the neighboring town to agree to it, you can start your own town and aprove the plans yourself.

[Jim Richards]

Jess, IMO you should target a 2-2.5 mile size for a road course so that you can have maybe around 10 turns a significant straight and a pit & paddock area. Can you incorporate any elevation changes into the course? My recollection is that with the notable exception of the mountains, CO is pretty darn flat.

[porschenut]

I say use the whole 33,000 acres and build a Ring replica.

Or make a 12-mile course with a Mulsanne-type straight and a 3-mile underground tunnel. Lots of possibilities with that kind of space.

[JonT]

FYI-there is a track under construction in Hastings, NE which is a few hrs east of Denver. Completion set for late summer '06.