Did my first track day today - both good and bad!!!
 

Today we went with the Swedish Porsche Club to Gelleråsen racing track for some driving fun. For me it was a really good day, with me starting to learn both my limits and the cars. Unfortunately, for my car it was not so much fun in the end. At the end of my second session, the oil pressure started to drop and smoke started to flow!!!
I puled out of the track and had a closer look. The oil was running out from somewhere at the top on the left side of the engine, but we could not identify the actual culprit :( I tightened up the upper left valve cover and cleaned of the oil, and let the car cole down before we started the 200Km drive home. The drive home was OK and without any problems :confused:
My car did discard close to 1Ltr of oil during the day, which is not good!!! I will have to have a close look before the next track day...

Here are some pics from the day :)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152467268.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152467325.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152467507.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152467590.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152467636.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152467718.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152467825.jpg

Someone else can chime in here with details ( maybe I can find them in my notes myself)..but...

..the '78 or '79 SC's had a track oil pressure problem that was solved ( I believe) with replacement springs on the case internal oil pressure and relief valves....oil pickup was poor and the pressure would go to zero real fast. Wouldn't occur for street driving....

Might want to investigate that....

- Wil

here's more-->

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=281860&highlight=loss+o f+oil+pressure+SC+OR

- Wil

Ahhh.. Pål/Paul..this shouldn't have been "new news" to you...see also here where you were involved in the discussions --->

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=236824&highlight=loss+o f+oil+pressure+SC+OR

- Wil

Thank you Wil, but I think this problem was more of a blown or bad seal. The oil was siting on the engine tin in the back left corner, and running down onto the heat exchanger on the left side. The pressure never dropped to 0, just went down. Normally my pressure is equal to my revs. 1bar to 1000rpm. But it was starting to drop a bit bellow that...
I think I must just have some bad gaskets which leak oil under high revs, as I did not have the problem on the drive home where I did not go over 3500RPM...
But I will also look into the spring issue - thank you :)

If it were bad gaskets then you would assume they would continue to be bad for your normal 200kM ride home.....I'm still betting it was the springs as indicated in the other posts. Look again what the symptoms were for the others who suffered this.... too much of a coincidence.

- Wil

You might be correct Will, and maybe I might be misunderstanding, but they are talking more about over heating, which is not the problem I was having. I will however have another look to make suer I do not get this problem. My current problem was that my engine dumped close to 1Ltr of oil over the heat exchangers during my second rune. And then proceeded to run perfectly OK for the drive home!!!

Sorry to hear about your engine problems Pål. Hope its nothing major.

I was almost determined to go to Gelleråsen myself - too many kids cramped those plans. Would have been nice meeting up.

Nice pics. Those SC decals on the side new ? The car sure looks the business !

Paul,

The two items might not be related. My oil pressure drops during track days because the oil is that much hotter. At idle the oil pressure gets really low. It happens during autocrosses too. I added a cooling fan to the front oil cooler and duct work to force air through the fender mounter cooler. It improved the pressure situation.

Also, I burn about a quart (~1L) of oil per track day. Normally I burn about 1qt per 1000 miles. I think the high RPMs combined with closed throttle when approaching the braking zones causes a lot of leakage in the valve guides and rings. Until consumption goes up in normal driving I'm thinking 1qt/track day is a not a excessive amount.

BTW. Where did you get the "911SC" graphic for the side of the car?? I really like it.

Mike

Paul...cool car! # questions, unrelated to the topic, sorry!

1- Is that your girlfriend/wife in pic 1?
2- Does she frequent this site?
3 -What does she thnk of that cool avatar???

;)

Thank you Markus!! I am sure we will soon find a good reason to meet up :) When are you scheduled to have the mechanic come and look at your car?

Thank you for the info Paul. Having had a night to sleep on it, I am sure the oil pressure was related to the higher oil temp. I know my car can get a bit hot at times, and driving on the track will have pushed it up. I do have a front mounted oil cooler on my project list, but will try to fix the new oil leak first ;)

I know that I was burning a little extra oil during the track sessions, and that will probably account for some of the lost oil, but most of the problems were coming from the new leak. I did go back down and have a look under the car this morning, and there is some small drops of oil in the same place - so I have created a new leak which is not so good :(

Now all I have to do is identify the parts to fix!! Apart from the valve cover what else could leak oil on the top left corner, as far in under the heater fan as you can go. That is at least where the oil is collecting, and then running down on to the connection between the left heat exchanger, crossover pipe and premuffler???

As for the SC stripe, that was thanks to MikeZ - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/292185-finally-fitted-sc-stipe-i-got-mikez.html

No problem Jake, but in return for the answers you must supply at least two valid ideas to my oil problem :D

1 - Yes that is my girlfriend, will be my wife during August next year :)
2 - She is only here when I have something to show her, she is not really a car nut, and only likes the 911 to keep me happy. Took me a year to stop her from referring to it as my "red car" :rolleyes:
3 - Her comment "Must be a boy thing!!!!" followed by "what has that got to do with cars???"

Ok, in response to your answers, I think-
1- might try some synthetic oil to keep the viscosity stable at higher temps.
2- I bet the higher revs, and sustained high revs, combined with the cornering, helped "pool" some oil in the 'top' of the engine, and it found it's way out via a valve cover gasket that has been sketchy, but you never noticed because you don't normally push the engine and corner like that for such sustained periods.

That's my 2 cents..;)

So, does your girlfriend, who is not only obviouslyattractive, but has a good sense of humor, have a sister? ;)

Interesting thoughts Jake. I have tried with synthetic oil before, and it found even more leaks in my engine so I changed back to dino.

So based on your valve cover gasket theory, would you suggest I replace my valve cover gaskets and take her out on another track day? I am booked on the next track day which is on August 5th (giving me close to 4 weeks to fix this). Main problem is that the track day is in Finland, and I am already booked and payed up (ferry, hotel etc)!!

I feel an engine rebuild in the close future :(

And yes she does have a sister SmileWavy

Sorry about your oil leak. As mentioned to you before I had on oil leak, it developed on the track day on Kinnekulle a month ago. It looks like I fixed it, it was the oil return tubes.

Long drives to and from the track combined with the stress of the track takes it tools on old cars.....
Change the valve cover gaskets (along with washers and nylock nuts) for a start.

Are you planing any more track days other than Finland? I was hoping on at least one more this year. Maybe Kinnekulle once more and Mantorp. I was to late for Sturup, the OR class was full.

Hi there Magnus. If I do not get this oil leak fixed then Finland will be the last one for me this year. I might just take the pain and go there for the fun and not drive - do not want to make the problem even bigger :(
But at the moment (and if all is fixed), then I will also go to Mantorp on the 17th. Would be cool if you are there :)
If I go, you will spot me (if you do not see the car) as I make a point to wear my SCWDP t-shirt :D

I am glad you fixed your problem. I only wish I knew what my problem is. I do hope it is just a gasket!!!

Yeah, would be fun, I think I recognize your car.
Look for a targa, I'm usualy the only one with one on PCS events. :)

Cool. See you soon then :D

Paul I responded in your other thread. I think you'll be fine. I bet the valve cover gasket is fine too.

Yes, thank you Jake! I will have to find a "fix your 911" night school :D

other than the oil leak it looks like great day out.

This car reminds me of the Edo Competition car from a few years back.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152467825.jpg

I thought the car was just way over the top, that is why I took the photo. Even the windows were tinted yellow. And then there was this crazy exhaust system!!:eek:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152561220.jpg

Your oil might be coming from the vent or because you "overfilled" the tank in the first place...all mentioned in other threads for details.....

here's more to chew on--> http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/292387-hard-right-turn-smoke.html

- Wil

Paul,

How is your SC idling since the track day? I had a similar experience at the track last October. All of a sudden the car was smoking badly. I found oil all over the top and bottom side of the tins on the left side. Oil was dripping onto the header pipes and causing the smoke. I found that the chain ramp pin had fallen out of its mount in the chain housing leaving a perfect 8mm hole. It would only leak (spray) at higher revs under load. Because of the hole in the engine, the idle was a little rough too. I pulled the sump plate on the case and found the pin laying in there. I epoxied back into place and so far it is holding fine. BTW, nice car. Good luck

That is very interesting Turborat. I did not really take note of the idle on the way home, but directly after the second run it was a bit rough - actually lower than usual.
What would be the quickest way for me to see if the pin has come out? would it be to just pull the chain tension covers and have a look?

Paul,

Here is a picture of the left side chain housing. On the outside of the case you can see the two dark spots near the bottom. This is the epoxy that holds the pins in place. On the inside of the case you can see the pins. They are the short steel pins. Look just aft of the #1 header pipe and you will see a hole through the case if the pin has fallen out.

What I found was the engine idled just like it does when the oil cap is removed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152620855.jpg

Thank you. I will have a look at that as well. Hmmmm, my car has never changed how it idles when I remove the oil cap - should it?!?

Yes. The idle speed will drop with a slight stumble when the oil cap is removed from the oil tank. Broken vent hoses from the oil tank to engine and CIS will cause a similar symptom. Given that the oil leak is on the opposite side of the engine from the hoses and tank, I do not think your problem is there.

So, if at the moment my idle does not drop or change, does this indicate another problem somewhere I should look for?? And if so, where should I start??

If the pin has fallen out of the chain housing as I suspect, the hole it leaves would be large enough to cause the idle issue (think of it as vacuum leak).

The hoses mentioned in my previous post would also cause the idle issue, but the oil leak is on the other side of the engine.

Check the left side chain housing area real good. I think the idle issue and the oil leak are directly related to each other and you will find the problem there.

Pål, where in Finland is the track day, Ahvenisto? Or Motopark?
Would be great meeting other country pelicanites :)

Hi Zendalar, it is at the track in Hämeenlinna on Saturday 5th August. If you are not to far away, come on down. Would be nice to meet another Nordic Pelican :)

Ah, the track must be the Ahvenisto.

Well, Hämeenlinna is about 280km from here..gotta check our timetable because we have a 4 month old baby, it might be a bit difficult to come there, would have take 2 cars...

But gotta check :)

Ps: motopark would be 40km from here.

Where in Finland are you?

This may have been pointed out already, but could the o-ring on the engine mounted thermostat be leaking? Mine pooled oil back there and smoked until I replaced this...

That has been covered Brian in another thread Brian, but thank you. It is on my list :)