Racing Suspension Setup - Miss anything?

[JohnJL]

I'm just assembling my order and would appreciate any notes...this is a track-only car, an 83SC. Is there anything here that is incompatible, missing or a better choice from Pelican? I am planning on having the shocks revalved locally...car weighs ~1000kg (2200lbs), runs 8 & 9" track slick tires

911-341-049-01-M69 Ball Joint,
WM-911-F23 23.5mm Front Hollow Torsion Bar (23mm eff rate),
WM-911-R31 32mm Rear Hollow Torsion Bar (31mm eff rate),
ERMP-2051000 Elephant Racing, Front Poly Bronze Suspension Bushings (set of 4) for factory control arms
ERMP-2061000 Elephant Racing, Rear Spring Plate Poly Bronze Suspension Bushings (set of 4) for factory spring plates
ERMP-2020901 Elephant Racing Weather-Sealed Rear Monoball Cartridge Set (pair),
ERMP-2071600 Low-Friction Control Arm Mount Kit - Elephant Racing
PEL-TE-FSBA22 Tarett Engineering Fully Adjustable Hollow Sway Bar, 22mm, Front,
PEL-TE-FSBA24 Tarett Engineering Fully Adjustable Hollow Sway Bar, 22mm, Rear,
PEL-TE-SBRFADP2 Tarett Engineering Front A-Arm U-Bracket Kit (Weld onto top of control arm)
PEL-TE-SBRFADP1 Tarett Engineering Front Swaybar Adapter Mounting Plate Kit (required on cars w/o original through-body swaybar)
TTK-930N 911 Turbo Tie Rod Kit
PEL-BSK-070 Bump Steer Kit
PB-008P Rear Trailing/Banana Arm Inner Suspension Bushing Kit
ERMP-2011000 Elephant Racing Front Monoball Cartridge Set
ERMP-2030900 Elephant Racing Triangulated Strut Brace

The catalog is a bit confusing here on the rear monoballs (shock upper mount-to-chassis) and the trailing arm bearings. Did I get everything I needed?

I have seen some people commenting on 33MM rear torsion bars, will 32MM hollows get things stiffly sprung enough?

thanks all for any help offered!

[TimT]

double check this..

the description of ERMP-2020901 and PB-008P appear to be for the same part.. though one has weather seals (or seals-it)


other than that looks pretty complete

[JohnJL]

Elephant's site shows separate items for the control arm mounts and control arm bearings, but I only see the bushings on Pelican (or the spring plate bearings) Am I missing something?

Thanks Tim, I think you're right?

[chrisp]

Are you looking for set-up advice or just confirmation of part numbers and such?

Because you are using slicks you may want to rethink your torsion bar diameters (you can go up to 34mm in the rear) and Sway Bar diameters so you can get the car really stiff. Slicks have a much higher level of grip over regular DOT-R track tires.

What type of cage do you have in the car? 4-point? Tied to the shock towers?

Any idea what your front-rear weight dist is?

[earlyapex]

The Elephant Racing site is a good reference. I'll second Chris' thoughts on the stiffness of your rear torsion bar. I would go with at least 33 mm and 34 mm if you can find them. I use Sander Engineering torsion bars. They are very well made and used by many out here. They are also much cheaper than the competition for some reason.

Have you considered going a coil over suspension?

[JohnJL]

Thanks guys.

Chris, I am looking primarily for confirmation I didn't forget anything as I have done quite a bit of research and speaking with local shops running competition cars. My cage is 6-point but not tied to the suspension points for class reasons. I don't know the front/rear weights yet as I haven't done any corner balancing yet. I was planning on installing everything and having the shop do the final alignments/balancing (and dyno work.)


Eric, I agree the Elephant site is a good reference and is actually what triggered my question about control arm mounting vs bushings being the same or not. Pelican only seems to go up to 32MM but I believe Elephant direct shows 33MM available. SRP may have 34.

I can't go coilover for class reasons.

john

[Chuck Moreland]

Originally posted by TimT
double check this..

the description of ERMP-2020901 and PB-008P appear to be for the same part.. though one has weather seals (or seals-it)


other than that looks pretty complete

Tim is correct that these are alternative parts. The PB-008P are the urethane peices that should never be used on the rear trailing arm.

Tim, the seals in the Elephant Racing monoballs are custom made. They are not the seals-it bits shown, which would not work - trust me I tried.

John, since you are running slicks I'd advise setting the car up with added camber. Instead of the stock ball joint, get the De-cambered Balljoints. On the rear suspension, get a CamberMax setup.

[lateapex911]

John, I do some racing, and I think your list is excelllent.

One thing I have discovered about racing and tracking is that you need to be able to adapt at the track and change the car. So i look for a very easy to set up and calibrate suspension.

I love Chucks stuff to death...have it on my car as well. But in the rear, I think you should seriously consider the WEVO SPS setup. I think that when you eliminate the items on your list that you'll get included in the SPS kit, you'll find that it won't affect your bottom line that much, and having the super easy adjustment for each corner ride height is a huge advantage.

If you have a shop set up your car for corner weighting, and they are fair and charge by the hour, it will save you buckets of cash. And it becomes so straight forward, you can do it yourself. Heck...the savings from a couple shop set ups could actually pay for a decent set of scales!

I would go with Chucks sealed monoballs in the rear too.

And I would consider Smart Rqcing bars as there is no welding to the front A arm needed. (But the Tarrets might be a better non-thru the body solution)

Good luck, nice project. (Your spare change jar will be a tad lighter after that order!)

[TRE Cup]

""And I would consider Smart Rqcing bars as there is no welding to the front A arm needed. (But the Tarrets might be a better non-thru the body solution) ""

Huh?
Tarret goes thru the body just like the smart bar but requires the weld on u tab on the control arm whereas the smart products does not

Either one requires removal of the gas tank to do a proper install.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by JohnJL
PEL-TE-SBRFADP1 Tarett Engineering Front Swaybar Adapter Mounting Plate Kit (required on cars W/O original through-body swaybar)

Well, Dave, I read this line and presumed his was different. I'm not familiar with his car. My Smarts did slide thru the body, and yes, popping the tank was the way to go. Took an extra 10 minutes, but i did remeber to drive it until it was empty, LOL.

I'm not familiar with the Smart non thru body version, so thats why I made the qualifying comment.

[TRE Cup]

hi jake
both go thru the body. the smart connects to the front control arms with an adjustable clamp on the small diameter tube of the arm. They claim that the geometry of motion is better than installing it in the more traditional position on the ball joint arm.

[lateapex911]

Ahhhhh...so the Tarret part he's referring to MODIFIES, or CREATES a way to mount it thru the body, when there was no provision to originally?? I get it now.

Yes, I bolted my Smart bar to the A arm, and it's a pretty slick install I think. The parts are nicely resolved. Lots of detail attention there. Here's a view of the connection to the a arm with the strut and bar installed.

[JohnJL]

Thanks guys.

I hadn't caught that the Tarret bars required welding to the a-arms...? 22MM did seem a bit thin in comparison to others' setups too...

Do the Elephant decambered ball joints mount with that unt of a castelated nut?

Just to confirm, ERMP-2020901 is in the big end of the rear's training arm where mounted to the torsion bar...what's the part number for the upper "monoball" where the shock upper mounts to the tower in the engine compartment?

Yes, my spare change jar will be lighter...but its retail therapy for a divorce...with her gone I think I actually save money, so these upgrades are actually a wise investment!

[JohnJL]

Jake, what Wevo products are you referring to? I don't see anything on their site:http://www.wevo.com/porscheproducts.htm

[lateapex911]

Yea..Tyson and Hayden..are you listening?? The website...errrr..sucks, LOL!

It's not on there...and I think they are trying to find the time to update it.

It looks like this:



Basically, it's a whole adjustable spring plate system, and includes the replacement for the rubber bushings. The quality is NASA or better, LOL. When you total what you'd spend for a wuality set of bushings, and new adjustable spring plates, it's nearly a wash moneywise.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by JohnJL
Thanks guys.

I hadn't caught that the Tarret bars required welding to the a-arms...? 22MM did seem a bit thin in comparison to others' setups too...

Different bars will have differnt values dependant on the geometry. Look at Smarts site to see their size range and suggestions. There's a good degree of overlap between the bars, which makes sizing easy.

Do the Elephant decambered ball joints mount with that unt of a castelated nut?

Mine did.

Just to confirm, ERMP-2020901 is in the big end of the rear's training arm where mounted to the torsion bar...what's the part number for the upper "monoball" where the shock upper mounts to the tower in the engine compartment?

Yes, my spare change jar will be lighter...but its retail therapy for a divorce...with her gone I think I actually save money, so these upgrades are actually a wise investment!

I'm looking at Elephants (Chucks) website, and I think you might be confused. The rear trailing arm only has one part you need: the monoball that mounts to the chassis near the transmission. The upper shock mount is just a shock mount. No parts are listed. The spring plate (the part that rotates at the front of the wheel opening around the T bar) gets a bushing, OR you can go the WEVO route.

Almost forgot. If you are upgrading the rear swaybar, consider upgrading the mounts. WEVO is the best.

[Jeff Alton]

Don't be fooled by the Tarret bar size, they measure out at 25.4mm. They are hollow and I suspect they call them a 22mm to show they are the same relative stiffness as a solid bar of that size. I have used both the SRP and the Tarret bars and they are both high quality.

On a light race car you should be fine with the Tarret ones.

Cheers

[zzwhm]

If you plan to race this car be sure to review the rules so you don't have to redo your setup later. Some parts like decambered ball joints are great stuff but illegal in production racing classes.

[hmd]

Jake,

How much is the WEVO SPS setup?

[mark_d_mcguire]

You didn't mention any shocks. You should consider custom valved to match your spring rates, since you are going that stiff.

If you have a copy, check out the September 03 Excellence. They have a good write up of several SC suspension settings.