New to P cars, the story and some questions

[p1967911]

Hello to all.
About 6 months ago I decided I needed a hobby. After kicking around a few ideas it ended up being a car. I don't know a lot about cars but it is a hobby, I'll learn as I go.At this point I'm thinking American muscle but no firm idea of what. So I start looking and one day driving through the country I spy an old 911 sitting under a tree in a field in 3' tall grass. I stop and inquire about the car, it's for sale (no sign on the car). The lady says it is a 1967 911 she want $6K for it. So I take a look at it body is in decent shape, a f ew rust spots (I know, there is more where that comes from) the interior is a total loss, the engine compartment and motor are clean, I mean really clean, cobwebs and dust abound but no greasy dirt. Battery, plugs, and plug wires are missing, everything else appears to be intact. I try to haggle on price a little, she won't budge. I get the VIN and look it up to see if it really is a 67 and it is. I think (but don't know) the car is worth maybe half of what she wants so I wait 2 weeks and try again, she drops to $5K, 4 more weeks she drops to $3K (at this point I should have sealed the deal but I'm not convinced a P car is what I want and am haggling for the fun of it) 4 more weeks and at $1250.00 I buy. For that money I can part it out if needed. So I start doing some homework at sites like this one and your enthusiasm for these cars is contagious. Now I'm convinced pcar it is.
Here are the numbers I've found on the car
Chassis #: 308445
Engine Model: 901/01 with 1854 stamped underneath
Engine serial #: 901954

Carburetors
Weber
T120
4075

So it is a 67 body with a 65 motor right?
I'm going to leave the body basically stock but would like to bump the motor up some. If it is a 65 motor is it worth more to someone as is or should I use it as a base? How much motor is too much motor, I want to stick with a early Alum. case but can I get 200 HP or so with one and is that too much for the car? How many of these SWB cars are still on the road? I don't plan on racing it, just some run around fun. I'm looking forward to bringing this piece of .... history back to life. I'll be asking lots of dumb questions, please be patient. No pics yet but I'll post some soon.
I realize all these things are subjective so feel free to offer your opinions.

[TRE Cup]

a 65 motor is worth decent money to the people in europe racing vintage correct cars- rally and circuit. they may not want to pay what it costs due to shipping though!
the block is aluminum and will take machining up to 2.7 displacement , if that was your desire. We've seen used blocks in the 300-750 range depending on condition and who is selling. You can easily spend over a grand on prepping a block completely if performance use is the goal- machine services can get pricey.
since you got the car so inexpensively, before you start check out the rust issues and figure out your expenses there. Getting the car to original condition is probably not worth it as the motor is not original to the car. Matching numbers (the car having the trans and motor numbers as shown in Porsche's mfg history _- obtainable by filling out a application at the porsche dealer). Figure out what your end goal is- i know you say run around fun- but with a 67 chassis, you have to think about rebuilding everything! its been out there quie a while. If you do a lot yourself, then check out pricing for parts with our site host as well as the used parts that are listed here. There are a lot of upgrades to be had cheaply if you are patient and creative
As you move along in the learning process you may decide that the end total is not what you are willing to spend, so do your homework well (as you have alreday started here!)

Best wishes and welcome to the Porsche world- it can be a lot of fun and rewarding education

[Super_Dave_D]

Oh no you made a huge mistake!!! You now are showing the early signs of this disease. Pretty soon it will set in and start to take over your life. P-car will be all you think about. When it really takes hold, your wife will have to hide the valuables because you will be looking to sell anything on EBay to finance your addiction! Your work will also start to suffer due to your checking the Pelican board all of the time. No need to worry as you have already contracted it and there’s nothing you can do.

As an added bonus you also just because a Pcar mechanic!!!

Welcome!!!!! PICS!!

[tonythetarga]

Hi and welcome to the board. I think you want to back up and research the VIn and engine number through an early 911 registry group. As I understand the VIN sequence numbers, from 1965 through 1967, all the VIN's for coupes made at Porsche started with number 3, then the next five digits were production numbers. (Karmann coupes started with 45xxxx and in 67 targa's were added and designated 50xxxx. I don't have a book that untangles engine numbers so I can't say what year it might be. Given that the five digits after 3 are serial numbers matching production, then yours is the 8444th built, presuming they started with 300001. I am sure that they didn't produce over 8000 cars in 65, so you could have a 67. If they used the same logic for numbering the engines, you could also have a matching engine for that car, so don't be too quick to swap it away.
This should be a fun project for you and consume many hours of fun and frustration, but the build is half the fun.

[Grady Clay]

WELCOME to the Forum!


The chassis 308445 is indeed a ’67 and appears to have been built just before Christmas ’66. Chassis 308522 is the first one after the new year.

The engine is perhaps more complicated. The S/N 901954 is in the range for ’65 engines. It would have had Solex P40 carburetors. Are there indications that it had the circulating fuel P40s?

The type number 901/01 is incorrect for that engine. Does it read “901/1”? There is some controversy about this.

What are the transmission S/N and Type numbers?


Dave (Pelican TRE Cup) is giving you great advice. Listen carefully. You should do careful evaluation of what you want before you do anything. Your first question is “What do you want?” You may have a bargain in owning a SWB 911 but that might not be the best basis for your project.

It is possible you might be better served using the proceeds from this purchase to buy someone’s partially completed LWB-long hood to start from.

You will get much good advice here.



Off to the different subject of what to do.

Your efforts to buy this ’67 are commendable. There is a separate issue about what you want from this process. I’m going to make some assumptions here.

You said you want a “hobby car.” The ’67 can be that if you want to restore it to original. If you want an early 911 with “200 HP or so” you should look elsewhere. I’ll encourage you to consider ’69-’73 LWB-long hoods, particularly the earlier versions. They are lighter. The engines can be almost anything – the bigger the faster. IMHO a lightweight very high compression twin plug 2.8S is ideal. Of course there are 3.0 to 3.8 available.

You need to clearly define your use. You said: “I don't plan on racing it, just some run around fun.”
The things that make that are: larger displacement, lighter weight, higher compression, MFI, “S” cams and more.

You also need to keep the chassis tuning in concert with your use. That certainly includes light weight. It is also a great deal in the suspension and tire area.


So, what is my advice?
Do your homework before you spend another dime.

Best,
Grady



EDIT to correct typo

[emcon5]

Short-wheelbase-semi-basketcase?

911R clone:



Drop a carbed 2.7 with "S" cams and RS pistons in it, and have a rocket.

It would be a handfull to drive though.

Tom

[p1967911]

Thank you all for the welcome.

Grady: the engine type number is stamped 901/01.
What is the controversy? Any idea what the 1854 stamped underneath is? I haven't had the chance to get underneath yet, I'll let you know about the tranny when I do. As far as the carbs go would I be looking for a unused fuel return line?

Super Dave: Did I metion the car is the same year model I am? Also up to this point I didn't have a hobby. Rather than take up the crack pipe sinking a small fortune into the car is acceptable. Do they have AA for Porsche addicts?

Emcon5: I'm thinking the run around fun would come to a rapid halt wrapped around a phone pole.

I fully intended on tearing a car apart and putting it back together regardless of the make. Thats the hobby part, really getting to know everything about it. If it cost 25% more because it's a Pcar thats okay. Maybe I'm being optimistic about the 25%.

I kinda knew I was asking to be slammed about the 200 HP thing. I'm trying to get over the Tim Taylor mentality. More Power! I thought I'd already made a large leap by not wanting to put flares and a tail on. I suspect it will end up with S specs.

I am interested to know how many of the SWB cars are still on the road, anyone care to throw a number out? This is one of the reasons I went with this car. You see 60's mustangs all over, not many early examples of the 911. The lines of the car are just gorgeous.

Best Regards,
Mark

[emcon5]

Originally posted by p1967911
Emcon5: I'm thinking the run around fun would come to a rapid halt wrapped around a phone pole.

You are the same model year as me. In those years you should have learned the lesson Harry Calahan taught us in 1973. "A man's got to know his limitations."

I fully intended on tearing a car apart and putting it back together regardless of the make. Thats the hobby part, really getting to know everything about it. If it cost 25% more because it's a Pcar thats okay. Maybe I'm being optimistic about the 25%.

You are being optimistic, but I admire your determination. Just so you are aware from the outset that it will never be worth anywhere near what you will spend on it.

I kinda knew I was asking to be slammed about the 200 HP thing. I'm trying to get over the Tim Taylor mentality. More Power! I thought I'd already made a large leap by not wanting to put flares and a tail on. I suspect it will end up with S specs.

A 67 S was a peaky 160 HP. Even a mild 2.7 (slap some carbs and early exhaust /SSI on an otherwise stock CIS 2.7S) will have slightly more power, but much more torque, ~180 vs 130 ft-lbs. It would be much easier to drive, and weigh about the same as the stock 2.0L. I think it would be a really fun car, even without going hog-wild with the weight reduction.

I am interested to know how many of the SWB cars are still on the road, anyone care to throw a number out? This is one of the reasons I went with this car. You see 60's mustangs all over, not many early examples of the 911. The lines of the car are just gorgeous.

Not nearly enough of them on the road. I can't remember the last time I saw one.

Tom

[project 911]

Welcome!

I can really relate to this story. I ended up with my 71 almost by accident. I talked to a friend and he mentioned having a 911 sitting behind his barn and didn't have time to work on it. A couple of hours later it was sitting in my front yard.
I was really into cars back in the 70's but had completely gotten away from it. I work at a computer all day and wanted something else to focus on. I never even thought about having a Porsche. I didn't put any time limit on the project and had very little money to spend, but really enjoyed studying and learning about these great cars. I wish I had found this board a little sooner, as it is THE place to find the information you need.

I knew from the start that I probably wouldn't never get my money back out of it but didn't really care. I know every nut and bolt on my car and love every minute of driving.

You've gotten some great advice here so far. Very carefully attend to the rust issues first. Make sure you have a good foundation before you get into the exterior and engine details.

I collected hundreds of photos from this board to help figure out what look and style I was looking for, then started tracking down parts. One thing I will say is (in my case) my vision of what I wanted has changed a lot since I got the car. Things I thought were cool back then, I hate now. Take your time and enjoy the process!

Have fun.

[Fidalgo911S]

Originally posted by p1967911
Any idea what the 1854 stamped underneath is?

Sorry to step in....but can anyone answer this question? Mine has 3054 stamped on it and I can't find out what these 4 numbers mean.

[p1967911]

Emcon5: Depending where in the bay you are I'm about 90 miles straight east of you. I'm in the foothills east of Stockton. This car is going to be a blast on the run up to Tahoe via Hwy 88-89.
As far as cost goes, whatever it ends up costing it will be cheaper than a girlfriend would be. This is logic my wife will actually buy into. I didn't put it to her that way but I know how she thinks. Did I really just say that? Ok, periodically to some small degree I think that I know how she thinks. I'm usually mistaken in these matters.
I want to drive it to bad to go the concourse route so I realize I'll never get the money back. These cars were built to be driven right?

Project911-Cool huh. I agree it makes complete sense to get the body under control first. I don't have a pile of cash to sink into it all at once much less the time to do it so it will be a process. This probably a good thing, it will keep me from doing things to it I'll be sorry for later.

One question on eddict- Is proper to call out by screen name or proper name?

One other question-When I reply it kicks me out to log on again?
After I re-log on it goes through.
Mark

[bob tilton]

Mark,
What an incredible score! This is a great place for knowledge. You should pay EASY (salvage yard) a visit during one of the R Gruppe meetings which is the first sat of every month. You will see quite a few great early "original" and "sports purpose" examples. Please stop by and introduce yourself.
PS A SWB with a carb'd 2.7 is indeed a very fun car.