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-   -   First clutch replacement (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/293683-first-clutch-replacement.html)

rallyracer 07-19-2006 12:03 AM

drop that thing already! i already have my clutch and tensioners done (today), ready for the oil lines (crimped like yours) and reinstall tomorrow. now, i did pull the trans last month to rebuild the tranny, so expect about 10hrs of cleaning that i already had done...

seriously though, among your list of items to add from our host:
-5 meters of the small (3.5mm??) cloth covered vacuum line. follow each line, cut a new piece to match and replace each one by one. simple, easy and then they won't crumble when you look at them!
-follow Wayne's book for the common oil leak seals/gaskets to replace.
-get the super clutch kit. it's got it ALL. remember that tools are sent separate. i didn't get the clutch alignment or flywheel lock tools in time.
-replace the intake gaskets
-do the 15k service

enjoy,
David

2.7RACER 07-19-2006 10:04 AM

Dave,
Throw away ALL the old CV hex head bolts. Get the schnoor washers with the new bolts and a new high quality metric allen socket set.
Even slightly worn allen wrenches need to be ground or replaced.
Yes I know, it's a pain in the A-s. Loose CV bolts can hurt you.
I always replace old, nasty hardware. Doesn't cost much, and makes the job professional.
Have fun with this, if it gets pis-y, take a break.

Eagledriver 07-19-2006 07:53 PM

I found the CV bolts at Ace Hardware and saved a bunch of money. Yes they are grade 8, etc.

-Andy

qlander 07-19-2006 07:57 PM

That spider is poisonous. Be very careful or you'll have to deal with some tissue necrosis.

Q.

slodave 07-19-2006 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by qlander
That spider is poisonous. Be very careful or you'll have to deal with some tissue necrosis.

Q.

I have been bitten by a BW many years ago. Luckily, I was not as bad off as some. I don't get near any spiders anymore.

Gunter 07-20-2006 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eagledriver
I found the CV bolts at Ace Hardware and saved a bunch of money. Yes they are grade 8, etc.

-Andy

Andy:
The grade for the hex head (Allen bolt) on the CV joints is 12.9.
If the "Moon plate" is not used, the 8mm x 50mm bolts need to be ground shorter by about 2 threads.
Use new Schnorr washers, pre-torque and then torque cross-wise to about 30 ft-lb.
I don't use gaskets.

slodave 07-22-2006 10:42 PM

Success
 
Engine is finally out!! My boss came over and helped me out. That was a big help! There was a little damage as well. Nothing major, but it'll set me back some more money. Oh well, it is all worth it. Today was way too hot. I had to stop working mid day as it was over 110 degrees outside and the hanger was even hotter. Went back around 6:30 this evening to get the engine and tranny out and it was still over 100 degrees. No work will happen during the day tomorrow. I will attempt to get the tranny and engine separated tomorrow evening. Anyway, here are the pics...

It's about time! :cool:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153633166.jpg

My boss...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153633204.jpg

Beautiful...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153633232.jpg

The carnage. I guess I am just too strong. Broke these by hand.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153633269.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153633285.jpg

SmileWavy

Gunter 07-23-2006 06:32 AM

That happens frequently, the bolts rust up over time.
Spray penetrating oil into the broken pieces to save the bolts.
Look for a used bar on PP.
Use anti-seize lube on all the bolts, except for the CV joints.
Cleaning up the whole unit will be soooooooooo much fun!

autobonrun 07-23-2006 09:58 AM

Good job.
 
I'm thinking about dropping mine this Fall. I think my clutch is nearing the end at 109k miles and I might as well replace it before it fails. However, I'm wimping out on working in the 100 degF temps if I don't have to. I think this might be a good Winter-Spring project.

My concern is the amount of working space I need in my garage once the engine is out. I seem to recall the widest point on the assembly is around 38 inches, but what is the approximate length from the muffler to the tip of the tranny?

I want to see if I can't arrange a workspace for my engine/tranny. I'll probably leave mine out several months while I repair leaks, etc. No rush since my SC isn't driven as much as it once was.

450knotOffice 07-23-2006 02:07 PM

So, Dave, are you going to fight the urge to start cleaning and powdercoating everything while it's out? My engine is even dirtier (by far) and when mine comes out later this year for a clutch and transmission rebuild it's getting a cleaning and a makeover.

slodave 07-23-2006 09:37 PM

More progress
 
Ok, even though it was still hot at 6:30, I managed to get the old clutch removed. Tomorrow I will get the flywheel to a shop and hope that it can be reused.

Can this be unscrewed without having the tranny fluid spill out?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153715525.jpg

Engine and tranny separated Had to get a little creative to get the lower left nut off.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153715563.jpg

Once again, I strip a hex bolt head. My solution was to force a torx bit in there and carefully get it loose. It worked and the bolt head can now fit a torx bit. I do have new bolts and I will be careful not to over torque or stirp the heads.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153715649.jpg

Time to get the flywheel offf.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153715789.jpg

slodave 07-23-2006 09:55 PM

There seemed to be a bit of dust. Is this normal?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153715921.jpg

I have no idea if the flywheel can be resurfaced. Anybody know what to look for?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153715953.jpg

I did not buy a flywheel lock and was lazy to make one. This worked really well for me and does not seem to be much different the the picture in Wayne's 101 book.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153716002.jpg

Having a length of pipe to get better leverage really helps alot.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153716077.jpg

Looks like this is where one of my oil leaks is coming from.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153716138.jpg

New and old clutch.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153716319.jpg

Looks like the breather hose needs to be replaced. The o-ring for the oil sensor will be replaced. What about the one circled in red. What is it and does it need any attention? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153716364.jpg

The old flywheel seal came out without a fight. Do the oil leaks mean that the case needs to be cracked. I cannot afford to do this right now.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153716480.jpg

That's it for now. Need to get a new parts list going and ordered up for the coming weekend. I did buy the PP Pelican Super Clutch Kit - Complete Package w/ Power Clutch, so now I need to get the small bits regarding the oil leaks in the second to last picture.

Dave SmileWavy

Gunter 07-24-2006 06:58 AM

Quote: Looks like the breather hose needs to be replaced. The o-ring for the oil sensor will be replaced. What about the one circled in red. What is it and does it need any attention?

You mean the 0-ring on the Thermostat?
Circled in red: Clean and tighten a little.
Circled in green: That's the switch for the oil light in the dash, replace with a new one.
Use a new gasket for the oil breather cap.
New hose for sure with a new clamp.

When working with Hex Head, or Torx, it is essential that the heads are cleaned out thoroughly and that the tool used has a sharp, sound working end.

As for the flywheel: A shop with experience will be able to get the right specs and determine if it can be reground.
Use a new pilot bearing.
Refurbish the bushings/bearings in the cross-shaft for the clutch.
The case doesn't have to be split to install a new main seal: Some do it dry, and others use a little sealant on the O.D.
Installing it flush with a little oil on the lip. Do it carefully, otherwise it'll leak.

slotcar 07-24-2006 08:15 AM

In your first pic...the sensor circled in yellow..on the front of transaxle...Those wires can be pulled out of the sensor with needle nose pliers (they're made to do so)....

slotcar 07-24-2006 08:25 AM

...Oh and ....if you replace the rear crankshaft seal...use the little notch at about 1'Oclock...use a flat bladed screw driver/light whack with a hammer (hit straight down)...you'll crush the seal slightly on the outter rim (which is want you'll want)...the outter rim is metal.....just pry it out at the notch. Be careful and be patient...it will come out out....do not mar the surrounding surface. Use the old seal as a guide (simply flip it around) and use it to tap the new one in place. Make sure it is even all the way around and flush with the outside of the case. Oh...and one last thing make sure there are no burs...it will tear your new seal when you are replacing it. This happened to me when replacing my front pulley seal :)

Kurt B 07-24-2006 01:07 PM

I'm working along with you for this project on my 84. How do I get the reverse backup plug out?
Or whatever plug is on the right hand side--had a 10mm headed bolt with a little rod holding it in. It's tan colored...

I don't know if I twist this thing or pull this thing out after the rod is removed.

Kurt B 07-24-2006 01:15 PM

I've got everything disconnected. I bought the jack tool here for holding the engine/tranny--the one for 84 and up. I hope it works. Anyway, inner cvs are disconnected, and I have only a few wires, and the tranny bolts holding the tranny to the body and the engine mounts themselves. I'm following the Bentley procedure step by step, did they miss anything?

slodave 07-24-2006 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurt B
I'm working along with you for this project on my 84. How do I get the reverse backup plug out?
Or whatever plug is on the right hand side--had a 10mm headed bolt with a little rod holding it in. It's tan colored...

I don't know if I twist this thing or pull this thing out after the rod is removed.

I never found the switch. I did disconnect two wires that were along side the shift coupler behind the front seats. I did not see any wires that I might have broken either. Oh well, we'll see what happens when all is put back together. :D

Dave

slodave 07-24-2006 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurt B
I've got everything disconnected. I bought the jack tool here for holding the engine/tranny--the one for 84 and up. I hope it works. Anyway, inner cvs are disconnected, and I have only a few wires, and the tranny bolts holding the tranny to the body and the engine mounts themselves. I'm following the Bentley procedure step by step, did they miss anything?
Take it slow and start to lower the engine, then recheck to see if there are any wires/hoses/etcc that you have missed. I checked and rechecked until I was confident nothing was still connected. Make sure you take the set screw that holds the shift coupler behind the front seats all the way out. It'll cause problems if you don't ;)

Dave

Kurt B 07-24-2006 01:27 PM

Ok...thanks...hopefully I'll have my engine out in a day or two..need a little relief in the temperature department (I'm in simi valley)...
Yes, I did pull the shift rod completely out back there...and I did disconnect those wires...we'll see when I start to lower it.
I wanted to just drop the engine and avoid the cv joint escapade, but everyone indicated that would be more trouble than it's worth, so I did those yesterday.

My clutch is OK. It makes a grinding sound when I let off the pedal from a standstill (as it's engaging)...so I'm expecting to see somethin broken in there; We'll see.

good luck


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