964-Day one-driving impressions

[SLO-BOB]

Don't worry. This won't be a running journal of my daily drives. I'm still very excited to have this car and wanted to share my first impressions with those who might consider a 964.

A little progression that most of you can relate to first-

I started out with BMW 2002s. I had a few including some modified Tiis. Great little cars that handle well. Many 2002 owners have the 911 "chip" on their shoulder. "Why would you want a 911? You can have the same speed and a carry four people in a 2002!" Anyway, my performance driving experience in them can be summarized as-"Holy *****! I'm going a hundred!" It felt like 150.

Then I moved to the 77 911s which can be described as-"Hmmm-I'm going a hundred." Felt like a hundred, but it happened pretty easily.

Then to the 72-Looking at it in the garage as it rained-I'll bet she'll do a hundred." It's not going out in the rain to rust!

Now in the 964-"Holy *****! I'm going a hundred!" Felt like 70.

As one would expect, the 964 is an evolution. All 911s are fast, relatively speaking. I've been on and at the track and seen many different 911s mixing it up. The better driver is ahead pretty much no matter what he's driving, within reason. I used to think that with each passing generation of car, Porsche simply threw more HP and technology at them and made them faster. True I suppose. But what I really think they did was to make it much easier to go faster, not simply faster. For example, driving along at 100 in my 77 required concentration. D'ya think? Yes-one should always concentrate at 100, but I'm talking in relative terms. By comparison, I was driving along today at "my speed" or the speed at which I think I should be going and feel comfortable at w/o looking at the speedo. I would have guessed I was going somewhere around 70 (I'm rural-no traffic to compare to). In fact, I was going 100. Seeing as it was going so well, and there was no one in sight for miles, I decided to shift down to 4th and take her up a notch. One thirty came up in very short order with no drama at all. Very stable and quiet. I slowed back down to legal and felt like I could get out and walk.

That's it for now-

Smoother, faster, easier, but still all 911.

[Bill Verburg]

The engine is nice but the big step from 911 to 964 was suspensions

the did it again going to 993 and then again going to 996.

Haven't driven a 997 yet but suspect from the literature that a noyther giant step was taken.

Congratulations.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Okay, so I gotta ask both of you, Bob and Bill:

Which one do you prefer for a not-daily-driver, but will-not-be-tracked-either car. The kinda of car you drive out to dinner, on a long weekender. Only occasionally drive to work kinda car?

Obviously no "right" answer, just a subjective opinion from two guys that I feel know of what they speak, Dan

[Bill Verburg]

I find myself gravitating to the 993 more and more, even though it's more race than street now.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Bill, It's probably pretty intoxicating to have the power, quiet (well, if it were stock) and a cool air conditioner on a hot day with the 993's, huh?

I really DO like 993's but they are also very different looking (to me) than an earlier 911. I am one of apparently few guys that really likes 964's. I like them as coupes and contrary to my taste in pretty much all other 911's, I like them with tails and turbo twists (Yikes!)

[Bill Verburg]

I have Fabiani cat bypass pipes and 2 sets of mufflers, RSRs and stock. I put the stock on for a track event and have been so pleased that I haven't put the RSRs back on.

the other thing is the Cup transmission, it just makes driving so much more enjoyable

next is the suspension I find myself going 10-20 mph faster thru turns

last the AC is nice.

[livi]

Good to read Bob !

And Dan, then I belong to the few too. I like them a lot ! Most likely my next car - in RS config. Thats Euro RS - not RSA.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
Okay, so I gotta ask both of you, Bob and Bill:

Which one do you prefer for a not-daily-driver, but will-not-be-tracked-either car. The kinda of car you drive out to dinner, on a long weekender. Only occasionally drive to work kinda car?

Obviously no "right" answer, just a subjective opinion from two guys that I feel know of what they speak, Dan

Well, a Boxster will do that job well, so I'd guess the newer the better. The 964 impresses me, but it's an older car now, so maybe it's just the right thing for your example, too. As you said, no one answer.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
The engine is nice but the big step from 911 to 964 was suspensions

the did it again going to 993 and then again going to 996.

Haven't driven a 997 yet but suspect from the literature that a noyther giant step was taken.

Congratulations.

Thanks Bill!

To be honest, I haven't had a chance to test the suspension really. However, what your saying is what I was eluding to-the cars are simply more capable now making it easier to go faster. It seems to me that all of the advancements have come together to make a car that's easier for the average bonehead-like me-to drive.

I'll get it out to Blackhawk and Road America soon and find out in a big hurry!

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
Okay, so I gotta ask both of you, Bob and Bill:

Which one do you prefer for a not-daily-driver, but will-not-be-tracked-either car. The kinda of car you drive out to dinner, on a long weekender. Only occasionally drive to work kinda car?

Obviously no "right" answer, just a subjective opinion from two guys that I feel know of what they speak, Dan

Thanks Dan for putting me in with such knowledgeable company as Bill. However, he speaks with authority and vast experience, while I merely opine on the few cars I've owned and driven.

That said, my opinion is exactly what I did. For me the 964 is a nice blend of classic 911 styling that I've always loved, and newer Porsche technology. I use my car for DEs, dinner driver, and weekend tours. It is not my daily driver, but certainly could be. The A/C was wonderful the other day and I'm also a big fan of cruise control as most of my driving is highway. The G50 transmission is easier for my wife and I like it too. It's fast, quiet, comfortable, and gets decent mileage from what I can tell so far. I almost wish I did something for a living that would allow for me to drive the car everyday. Milt's point is a good one. The 964 is an older car now. It's hard for me to relate to that as mine has 22k miles and looks like new, but it's fact that it's 14 years old. I have faith that it will be reliable, however.

If you are seriously considering a newer Porsche, my recommendation would be to try them all-964, 993, and 996. All great cars I'm sure.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally posted by SLO-BOB
... For me the 964 is a nice blend of classic 911 styling that I've always loved, and newer Porsche technology..

One of the reasons why I like 964's so much!


If you are seriously considering a newer Porsche, my recommendation would be to try them all-964, 993, and 996. All great cars I'm sure. [/QUOTE]

I'm not considering TOO much. I just sold my 951 for frankly more than I thought I'd get. It vaguely makes me wonder what I might get for my middie? She looks great and I get a lot of questions about her. I have a large number in mind. If I could get it, I'd consider selling and buying a 964. Well sorted, full records only.

Of course my thinking like this COULD have something to do with the last few weeks of 95 degree weather here and not driving my middie because it is TOO FRIGGIN HOT!!!!

[Wayne 962]

Yes, the 964 is a quantum leap over the incremental changes made from 1978 through 1989 (and including 1974-77). It's a much better performing car.

However, the potential engine issues have chases many away, as have also the questionable styling queues...

-Wayne

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Yes, the 964 is a quantum leap over the incremental changes made from 1978 through 1989 (and including 1974-77). It's a much better performing car.

However, the potential engine issues have chases many away, as have also the questionable styling queues...

-Wayne

I believe if you look at the 964 in historical context, the "questionable" styling cues are a far more subtle change than the changes from longhood to impact bumper cars. Those changes were met with chaigrin from the Porsche public and motoring press.

At first I didn't appreciate the 964 either, but they grew on me. After all, many of the upgrades I was considering were factory installed on the 964-3.6 motor, coil-over suspension, bigger wheels, etc. It was cheaper for me to go buy a 964 than to add the parts and conversions to an earlier car. Also, if you look at a lot of the aftermarket body parts for SCs and Carreras, they have many of the elements of the 964 styling, i.e. more aerodynamic with no rubber strips or bumperettes and all one color.

The engine issues, to the best of my knowledge, were resolved in 92. Like midyears and pulled studs, the 91 and earlier cars were known for their lack of head gaskets and developing leaks. I've looked at a number of earlier 964s and have some friends who have them. None of those cars have had the fix ($$) nor do they have the leaks. Many contend that the problems are exagerated by internet hyperbole. Besides, the bulletproof SCs and Carreras certainly have their weaknesses also.

Also like midyears I agree that they are the misunderstood younger red-headed step children. I guess I just like the underdogs.

[Scooter]

I agree with Bob. The engine issues seem to be corrected in 1992 and as far as questionable styling queues....well, if you don't like the style of the 964, then I question YOUR interpretation of style. (not singling out Wayne, "YOUR" applies to anyone)

[cegerer]

One of the 'problems' with modern sports cars are their extremely high performance levels - they require the car to be driven VERY fast to experience anything even approaching the edge (the edge being defined as where the fun starts). That's difficult and often dangerous to do on the street. It's one reason I just sold my 2004 M3 - a car where a 35MPH corner might start to get fun at 90MPH .... What's the point of owning such a car? You either race around at double the speed limit or it's a snore.

I've driven 2 964's - one Turbo and one NA. I think they do a good job of combining the feel of the 'traditional' 911s while offerring improved ride/suspension. In other words, you can still have fun at normal speeds and be safer at higher speeds.

And as time has gone by ..... they look better than the 993!

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by cegerer

I've driven 2 964's - one Turbo and one NA. I think they do a good job of combining the feel of the 'traditional' 911s while offerring improved ride/suspension. In other words, you can still have fun at normal speeds and be safer at higher speeds.

And as time has gone by ..... they look better than the 993!

Naturally I agree with all of the above. I might add in addition that the 993 is a great looking car. However, and not that it really matters, but the general public might regard the 993 as an old Porsche vs a 964 as a "classic" Porsche.