996 Lightweight???

[Jandrews]

Has anyone done this? I mean, with all the great discussion on the board recently and a bunch of "new" 996 purchases happening here, has anyone contemplated taking the 996 to the church of lightweight?

I think they come in at just under 3,000 lbs stock, right? How light could you reasonably get one...for the street? for the track? I know the GT3 is really the 996 lightweight, but the GT3 is really a different car, right? Different motor etc..

The reason I am asking (and possibly contemplating doing this in the future) is for two reasons. First, these 996 cars are fast right out of the gate...somewhere near 300 hp and 3,000 lbs. What would it be like at 2,500 or even 2,600 pounds? Secondly, a lot of air-cooled fans complain about the lack of visceral feel and connection with the road on the 996. It seems if you took some weight out of it, it would be louder, lighter, more raw.

Let's bat this around a bit. I think a 996 lightweight would be an all-around great car for around town and on the track. What are your thoughts?


JA

[450knotOffice]

I have to agree with your last statement.

By the way, interestingly enough, the GT3 is actually a little heavier than the basic 996. This was because of the passenger comforts included with the car. Porsche overcame this with very well tuned suspension, a seam welded body, and a LOT more horsepower.

The basic 996 back in 1999 and 2000 weighed about 2,900 pounds, which is really light for a contemporary car. The power to weight ratio ends up being about the same as for the 997 C4S, as I understand it.

[W Scott Shores]

Great idea. The Feb 2005 issue of Excellence has an article about a lightened 996 "Club Sport" by 9ff. I'll have to re-read that article. I imagine it would be difficult to take more than a few hundred pounds out of the car before it started to get expensive.

[Jandrews]

Agreed, the 996 could certainly be considered "relatively" lightweight at 2,900 lbs. And yes, I like them "as-is". But what I want to explore a little bit here, is what would it take to get one to 2,700 lbs? How about 2,600? Then, let's start getting crazy with carbon fiber and other tricks and start exploring what comes next at 2,500? Ok, now 2,400? What are the practical, or even im-practical limits? Hell, with the stuff that goes on here on Pelican, I'm sure some crazy fool would would be willing to spend the crazy money to get to 2,000! I guess I would just like to hear some ideas on how you might get to some of these numbers. Honestly, I'd love to see someone with a 2,600 lb 996 and have them describe the driving experience.


JA

[450knotOffice]

That would be interesting. My '84 weighs 2570 pounds and I can't imagine how quick it would be with the engine from my 996. Anyone here with a lightened 996?

[efhughes3]

Do a search, as I recall there was a lengthy decision several months ago on this exact subject. With the prices where they are, this is becoming more of an economical proposition. Same would be true for an early Boxster.

[Jandrews]

How much do the 996 seats weigh? How about the carpeting and sound-deadening material? Then we could look for amplifiers, excessive speakers, and electric motors for the mirrors, seats, etc... Then, what about door panels? The stockers must be heavy. Gotta be some carbon fiber alternatives that would look good and support the goal of trimming down.

I'm not talking about going hog-wild here, and no need to start drilling holes in hinges just yet. I am thinking there must be some "low-hanging fruit" to be had in the quest for ounces. Let's start by looking at some of the obvious opportunities and then we can start getting creative as additional progress gets more and more elusive.

Scott, as you sit behind the wheel of your new car, what jumps out at you as "creature comforts" that could go fairly easily without totally destroying the car?


JA

[Jandrews]

I did try a search, and only found some discussion regarding the 996 wheels. If there was a good thread on this, I'd appreciate a link to it if anyone can find it.


Thanks,

JA

[450knotOffice]

As I sit in my car, what could go...hmm...good question. I suppose it depends on what I'm willing to give up. The first thing that comes to mind is that the car is quiet for a Porsche, which equals a good amount of sound deadening material and carpeting. That stuff has got to weigh a lot. The next thing I think of is the front and side airbags. My doors are heavy and I assume it's because of the airbags. Power windows probably add a good bit of weight too as would the power mirrors. If I were willing to sweat to death, I'd also pull the air-con. The spare would have to go too. The stereo is a six speaker affair so I could pull four of them and still have some music to listen to (besides the engine, of course)

I think those things gone would get the car down to 2650 easily but you'd have a pretty uncomfortable car to use as a daily driver. As a weekend canyon carver though...

[Jandrews]

Of all the things you mentioned, I would definitely want to leave the air-conditioner, but everything else could go (in my opinion). A total-track beast would be fun, but that is really not what I would be shooting for. I could deal with a super-simple lightweight carpet, no air-bags, lesser or even no stereo. Definitely bye-bye to power mirrors, seats, windows, etc... Spare tire could go (cell phone is lighter). What is in the trunk?

This is good. Sounds like 2,600 or 2,700 might be do-able without terrible difficulty or expense. Interested to hear more ideas. And of course, I would LOVE to hear someone's driving experience who has done this. Can you imagine a 2,500 lb 996?


JA

996 hot rods?

[efhughes3]

Originally posted by Mark Wilson
996 hot rods?

Somehow, I bet you have a bit more info on 996's stashed away on the ol' hard drive...

How's the facelift on Ginger coming?

Originally posted by efhughes3
Somehow, I bet you have a bit more info on 996's stashed away on the ol' hard drive...

How's the facelift on Ginger coming?

She's back in one piece!

[Bill Verburg]

This ones nice

[Carrera3.5L]

With this line of thinking you can easily build a car for Grand-Am Cup GS and race professionally...

The 996's for Grand-Am Cup GS must weigh a minimum of 2,950 lbs. if using the 3.4L or 3,000 lbs. if using the 3.6L motor. Most are taking the 50 lb. weight penalty and using the 3.6L motor...

Here is the Grand-Am rule book which gives you an idea how you can legally modify the car:

http://www.grandamerican.com/CONTENT/Docs/PDF/Rules/Grand-Am/2006/GAC_Rules.pdf#pagemode=bookmarks

Bear in mind that removal or relocation of these items saves several hundred pounds, which is put right back on with ballast (in the right spots) to make the minimum weight. From what I've seen, 2,600 lbs. is doable but don't expect a street car with creature comforts...



Quite a bit slower than their Cup Car or GT3RSR big brothers, but remember these are essentially street cars with slight modifications and are relatively inexpensive to build & maintain.

Ralph

[89911]

Originally posted by Jandrews
Agreed, the 996 could certainly be considered "relatively" lightweight at 2,900 lbs. And yes, I like them "as-is". But what I want to explore a little bit here, is what would it take to get one to 2,700 lbs? How about 2,600? Then, let's start getting crazy with carbon fiber and other tricks and start exploring what comes next at 2,500? Ok, now 2,400? What are the practical, or even im-practical limits? Hell, with the stuff that goes on here on Pelican, I'm sure some crazy fool would would be willing to spend the crazy money to get to 2,000! I guess I would just like to hear some ideas on how you might get to some of these numbers. Honestly, I'd love to see someone with a 2,600 lb 996 and have them describe the driving experience.


JA

I think it goes in increments. The first 1-200 lbs could be done for hardly anything since you are gutting. The next 100 lbs or so could be done with parts replacement, like seats. The price is getting higher. The last part of the equation is removing more difficult parts of the car, like fenders, hoods, etc, with fiberglass and carbon fiber. Now you are talking serious money. Take in account you should be adding weight also with a roll cage. As the saying goes, "It's nothing money can't fix". This is why it is usually much more affordable to start with a light car to begin with. If you can pick up a salvage or flood damaged car for what the insurance company would pay for it would help. then you have little to loose by gutting the car. Buying a nice 996 and doing this is a one way trip into a car you will never sell for what you will put into it. Funny this came up since I just came back from a DE that my instructer was driving a 99 996 that was mostly stock with an aero kit and a roll bar. Seemed pretty stiff and drove nice. (My 89 275hp 2700lb 3.4 would of ate it though ).

[dd74]

Somehow, I think a stripped-out 996 would still be luxurious compared to a stripped-out Carrera, SC, or anything before that.

What about power steering, brakes, ABS, and such? I would think that is a bit too involved to remove from the car.

Very good thread, BTW.

[Jandrews]

Some really good content here...

Ok, let's just say for discussion sake that we would aim for 2,600 lbs and have a street hot rod, not really a full blown race car. I can only imagine the performance would be excellent, and this could be done for relatively low investment...let's say $35K tops. Then, you have a nice car that you can drive on the street, have some fun in the twisties, and yet still go to a DE and feel like you are driving a sports car.

Anyone here drive a lightened 996?


JA

[89911]

I just think it would hard to lighten that car much. I really think Porsche was trying when they made it. Not that it wouldn't be a nice car, but I think it is keep it like it is, or gut it and have the bare metal tub track car to remove the weight. The way cars are made today with huge pieces of molded plastic like the whole dash assembly make it hard to dismantle without its complete removal.

[jorian]

No dry sump lubrication - I've read that tracked 996's can suffer from oil starvation