early style headlights

Hurra912 · 08-10-2006, 10:43 AM

So the early style headlights are out of production, and I have come accross these reproductions that are made for VW's I've heard they will fit a '69, but not quite. Has anybody done this mod, and what does it take to make it look factory?

Thanks,
Wayne

Early VW_356 headlight

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

The correct ROW lights for your car are available here in both H1 and H4 config.

Early_S_Man · 11:14 AM

The '356/Beetle/Bus' headlamp assemblies won't fit ANY 911 or 912 from 1965 - 1989!!! The tab you see at the bottom takes a large screw and plastic standoff ... that threads into a weldnut under the headlamp bucket.

How are your basic metalworking skills at the miniature/jewelry scale? You would need to remove the tab and rivet, drill and 'dent' a new seat for a countersunk Philips-head M4 screw at just the right & proper angle to mate with the threaded tab INSIDE the 911 headlamp bucket.

The only reasonably easy conversion would be to reuse the outer trim ring from a 911 '65 - '67 headlamp assembly and replace the VW/356 outer trim ring. The 'Beetle' retainer clips, lens, gasket, & trim ring are interchangeable with the 911 parts.

If you have old '65 -'67 sealed-beam headlamp assemblies that are rusty, but the chrome trim ring is still not pitted, corroded, or bent [cleaned up or rechromed] ... you can use a 'Beetle' assembly to build a reasonably good copy [not concours grade, though] of an original '65 - '67 assembly.

}{arlequin · }{arlequin's Garage

are you talking about the ENTIRE headlight as you show in the pic or just the different type of a curve (more rounded) of the glass?

there is a thread here where "tre motorsports" built a car and used vw glass on a porsche h4 or h1 lamp....

Hurra912 · 08-10-2006, 11:20 AM

What I have is a '69 with the H4 upgrade, and what I want is the curved outer lens with no fluting.

What is the most cost effective route to obtaining my goal with what I already have?

Second, I haven't held a sealed beam headlight in several years. Could I replace the bulb in the lamp with a HID conversion, or can the bulb not be seperated from the lamp?

The profile and clenliness is just so cool...

Compared to:

Hurra912 · 08-10-2006, 01:02 PM

Maybe I could drop in a set of these, and really get a high-tech vintage look.

lateapex911 · 08-10-2006, 01:40 PM

I am doing an HID conversion using the smae old buckets/lenses.

Watch out, the HID world is full of crap. You can NOT use HID bulbs in anything but the projector units they were designed for, and many of the HID conversion units I've seen are vastly inferior to the factory offerings. Then theres the Hi/ beam problem.

I chose to use the Bosch units that have a solenoid shade that pops up when the high beam is selected, as it seems a better solution than the movable filiment method. I picked the projectors, bulbs and ballasts up on ebay. They are Audi A6 fitments (as well as many others)

Then I fabbed bracketry to fit them to the old buckets. Currently I am working on trimming them out and adding some lens detailing. I'll try to find the trhead with the pictures, as my computer was hit by lightening and i'm missing stuff.

It's not a slam dunk easy mod, and you need some tools, design skills and fab skills, but it is possible. I love the light, thats for sure, now i just need to get the appearance right..

lateapex911 · 01:48 PM

Here's a link to one thread:

HID Xenon for 911 - Initial pics

and here is the other:

HID for a older 911 ??

If you're interested i can take some current progress pics of the lights on the car as is.

john walker's workshop · 08-10-2006, 03:55 PM

you can H4 your original light units by carefully knocking the lens out of a H4 7" bulb so you have the reflector remaining. then you don't have two fluted lenses counteracting one and other. the vw units have a rounded chrome ring which looks stupid on a 911 fender.

djdsc · 08-10-2006, 07:12 PM

Are these Euro H4's?

They have Hella lenses (E2), H4 bulbs and are made in Belgium by Cibie.

Early_S_Man · 08-10-2006, 08:22 PM

djdsc,

Those are 7" Cibie non-DOT H4 'conversion' units [H4 replacement for 7" sealed beam bulb] mounted in the Hella '65 - '67 headlamp assemblies.

djdsc · 08-11-2006, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Those are 7" Cibie non-DOT H4 'conversion' units [H4 replacement for 7" sealed beam bulb] mounted in the Hella '65 - '67 headlamp assemblies.

Warren Early_S_Man

Thank you!! I have been trying to figure out just what these are for some time.

Are these "conversions" still available or are these late 60's early 70's parts? Being non-DOT were they US available?

Is there any reason not to run them on my '68 and if so should they be installed with a relay?

Early_S_Man · 08:13 AM

djdsc,

Yes, they are still available ... often at motorcycle and sports car specialty sites. Pelican carries Hella non-DOT H4 kits:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911E/POR_911E_ELlite_pg1.htm

IIRC, motorcycles don't have to have DOT-approved headlamps, hence their popularity, along with high-power H4 bulbs!

I believe Daniel Stern also carries not-DOT 7" conversion units. Probably referred to as 'off-road' lighting ...

No reason not to use them on a '68, and yes, relays would be a very good idea!

Zeke · 08-11-2006, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by john walker's workshop
you can H4 your original light units by carefully knocking the lens out of a H4 7" bulb so you have the reflector remaining. then you don't have two fluted lenses counteracting one and other. the vw units have a rounded chrome ring which looks stupid on a 911 fender.

Hah! I did just that when I bought some "H4's" on the FS bbs that turned out to be an H4 "sealed beam" type and not the original. These lamps with contiguous reflector and glass lens can be had new for under $15 ea. If you have the housings, you're good to go. I used the yellow plastic lenses to finish the job of salvaging my purchase of literal junk. These worked great for the track as I had lights that were expendable and working in case I got caught in the dark on a track day (usually going early in the morn.

I was kinda embarrassed by the whole deal of knocking out the flat, fluted lens after being screwed like I was. Good to see that this is actually viable.

randywebb · 08-11-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hurra912
[B]
The profile and cleanliness is just so cool...

I agree - they look great from the side. I had to think about it for 2 or 3 mintues to decide against getting rid of my H1's...

I think I saw a conversion using the older, curved style that was posted on Early 911S bbs. Do a search there.

spiff · 08-11-2006, 02:31 PM

Does anyone know where to get the trim rings for the older style lights? I tried doing the conversion with the beetle style but as others have said, it doesn't work and doesn't look right. I'm open to ideas or if anyone has these parts they'd like to sell. Condition is not too important....