So send me a ticket. ;)

Well...maybe we could talk website too, and I'll write the whole thing off when the time comes.

Where are you?

Being a carpenter for 37 years has given me some unique intuition as to how things align. I'll bet some bodyshop guys would LTAO at some of the stuff I do when it comes to measuring and setting up. Let me offer another thought or 2. Use templates, paper, wood or otherwise. And a cloth seamstress tape is a very good tool for finding dimensions on compound curves.

We should take this off line.

Indeed...but it looks like I can't PM you. I might still have your email addy...

nononono - leave this on-line. This is rare tech for pelican.

oh yeah - large.

Looking good. That's an interesting aero treatment you've got on the roof.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1155780294.jpg

Chuck - that's proprietary - don't even think about it.

Keith...I wasn't suggesting that we take the whole discussion offlist...just the one where I was trying to bribe Milt into flying here and helping me with my project. :)

Hey Keith,

I have a buddy coming over today to help with the welding of the flares. Do you happen to have those numbers?

Thanks!

Glad to hear you got some local help. You can always brings pics and measurements back here to the forum. You get free help from multiple sources w/o any bribes. ;)

I'm actually thinking of videotaping it and putting it on the 2syllableword.com website as the first of my downloadable tutorials....

whoops, forgot about that - let me get you those measurements.

This is how we (Zuffenhaus) hang a 930 flare on a 911:

(make certain the flare is tight against the roll at the bottom of the 911 body - very important)

Disregard the outer edge of the flare you are installing - only the arch (of the wheel opening) is relevant to positioning.

First measurement (A) is from the edge of the taillight opening to the lower rear corner of the arch. Straight line dimension is 365mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181852491.jpg

Second measurement (C) is from the inner rear edge of the jack hole to the lower front corner (at line) or the arch. Straight line dimension is 470mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181852559.jpg

Now, the depth measurements!

First, depth from Fender A to Frame A (at the rounded boss of the lower bumper/valance support rod) is 325mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181852632.jpg

Straight line dimension of point B (top of arch) to inner frame directly behind it (over the top of the tire) is 365mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181852682.jpg

And Fender C to Frame C at point indicated is 330mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181852715.jpg

Aside from that, I try to tweak the flare up until it is similar in height to the SC/Carrera flare behind it, for good clearance when the car is lowered.

I position the flare and use 3 or so self-tapping sheetmetal screws to secure it to the original fender. I use a ziz-wheel (abrasive cutting disc) to start a cut at the TOP of the 930 flare. Then I use a pneumatic body saw to cut about 6 inches in either direction and tack as I go, down each side of the flare. If you've fit the flare properly, it will not walk or wrinkle on you and will line up at the bottom edge when you arrive there. If not, minimal tweaking is possible. Upon completion of the cutting, the old fender section will fall out (unless you've tacked it, in which case it can be motivated to displace itself fairly easily.)

That should get you a well-hung 930 rear fender flare. I'm still working on the 930 to RSR thing...

(BTW, these images/measurements are from a factory 930, in case you were wondering.)

Wow. Thanks Keith. You are a rock star.

keith...quick question. Do you cut through both the flare and the body, or do you essentially trace around the outside of the flare with the body saw?

Can I assume these numbers work for an early car as well?

We cut at the edge of the flare (unless the shape is goofy - occaisionally that is the case), meaning we cut just inside the perimeter of the flare - cutting both pieces of metal simultaneously for an exact fit.

I'm assuming by early you mean SWB? - and if that's the case, I'm assuming that if you are flaring a SWB you are also converting it to LWB. So, yes.

No, he has a '69.

Keith, I don't think anyone has nailed it as precisely as you. Great writeup!

ok, cool - all that should be the same for a '69. or earlier, if you are converting to LWB.

BTW, I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

You own the HIE!

I've got one flare tacked on...woo hoo!

These numbers are *nails* too. Perfect.

Keith,

Good on you, most shops would not offer up the "trade secrets"!

Nicely done, shows the class of the operation you guys run. That is fantastic info to post. Thanks.

Now, are you cutting the old flair away as you tack your way along the new one? Did I read that right?

Cheers

Guys. She has hips. Pics in a minute.

Keith,

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

And, if I haven't said it enough, Thank you!

Ok.

So, here's the deal. Those numbers were GREAT. I was really concerned about how I was going to fit these things. Once you take the first measurement from the taillight to the rear edge of the flare, you kinda look at it and wonder if it's going to be right. Then you do that second measurement and all of a sudden, the flare wraps gracefully around the wheel. It's awesome.

Another thing. *Definitely* a two person job. I can't imagine doing it solo, and at the very least having another set of eyeballs on the car.

I got the flares tacked on. Questions in a moment, pics now.

The tacked passenger side. How's the fit look?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181878154.jpg

Rear 3/4 angle:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181878198.jpg

Full car view:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181878221.jpg

Left side fitted. Grinding the edge for a clean welding surface with help of superman Zach Detra. You should see this guy's paint on his guards red 79. Like glass.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181878293.jpg

The procedure starts on the other side. Small cut with cutting wheel, just enough so there's room for a body saw, which is very thin. Cut 6-10" to the right and left, and start tacking from the middle outward. We found it really helpful to have one person eyeballing the sheet metal to guide the other guy as to where he should weld. I'd then push the metal together so it was flush and Zach would tack it. Then I'd grab the body saw and saw a few more inches on each side, and the process would repeat itself. I also had a body hammer handy to hammer on hot welds, thus saving some grinding time in the near future.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181878488.jpg

Here's a close up of how we would do it. I'd cut the overlapped flare just a sliver so we had a perfectly flush mount. The small chunk of metal would just peel away at the top. In this case, I'm cutting to the right and spotting as there was enough room. Every 4-5 inches or so.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181878608.jpg

It got dark, but I have a couple of pics of the final product. I actually have a teeny bit more to weld tomorrow morning on the driver's side, but we ran out of light.

Dark, but niiiiiice pics.
 

Here are a couple of pics from the dark:

Her hips, at night: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181878906.jpg

And a front 3/4 view in the dark.

Thanks again Keith, and all.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181878950.jpg

And, in case you're reading this for the first time, this was the FIRST time I'd ever done anything like this. In fact, this whole car build is completely off the cuff, and I have no idea what the h3ll I'm doing here. So, guys like Keith and Milt and all the other folks that have chimed in have been a huge, instrumental help. Thanks so much. Beer's on me.

Ok, next questions:

1. What's my next move? My thought was to continue to tack weld in between the current tacks, and alternate front/top/rear to keep it cool'ish.

At what point do I start stitch welding it?

2. Ok, so now I have a welded seam on each flare, and I've done some grinding to smooth it out. How do I finish it, especially on the inside? I was going to use some POR-15 or something, or some kind of seam sealer. What do you guys do?

3. Now it's ground and the inside is finished...do I immediately start doing the bodywork and get it in primer, or is it ok to sit for a while while I do the front flares and my rockers?

Thanks.

Hey Michael, It sure looks like we were doing the same thing at about the same time... First time for me with the flares too, and without the help of this board I'd be in full on trial and error mode. I read a couple of threads on installing flares, looked at a few pics of the procedure, and then jumped in. The only thing I would do differently is to do as you did and have another set of hands to help hold things while tacking. Keep up the good work, with periodic updates and I'll try to do the same. Oh and thumbs up on the black wheels.

Cheers,
Matt

Jeff, that's correct.

BTW, I have some wheel dimension/offset info to start feeding you...

Brilliant info in this thread! Printed to pdf for storage... and I don't even plan to get me some 930 fender flares.

I am really curious how the transition from 930 to RSR will work out. Great work and great info! Keep those pictures comming! That will be a beautiful ride I'm sure.

P.S. emptyo, great work on those flares too! Not bad fitting work for a first time. It helps a lot to have those numbers I guess. I have read many threads about fitting but right here is where you start to learn ;)

Yes, those numbers were really key. I'm still a total rookie welder though. Anyone care to chime in about the tacking/stitch welding question a couple of posts up? I'm about to get started again...

oh, sorry - don't stitch more than 1/2" at a time, I quench with a wet rag while working the next stitch about 6-8" away. Don't let anything get too hot.

You will end up with a completely welded seam. The underside should be fine - your welds will penetrate all the way through. You can dress the underside, but it usually isn't necessary.

Awesome.

Almost done with each side now. I've got the driver's side done. I'm basically hammering and dollying until each surface is even, tacking away until I get about 1/2" of space, then doing a seam weld from tack to tack.

My next question: What grinder/grinding method do you all use to take the welds down? I have one of those flapper discs (Looks like a bunch of pieces of sandpaper overlapping each other) on my 4.5" grinder. Is that the move, or should I get something else?

My welds are kinda pigeon poop, but I can probably touch up anything I messed up.

the flapper disc generates a lot of heat - be careful with that. I use it to take down the largest welds, then smooth with a thin green abrasive disc. The old-school grinding discs work ok also, with less heat. You CAN warp with the flapper (ask me how I know).

Sorry...I'm a total neophyte. What are "old school grinding discs"?

Fiberglass, a grinder and some bravery.
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939132.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939145.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939158.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939175.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939190.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939217.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939277.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939228.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939239.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939262.jpg

Daylight Photos...Seams welded.
 

Whew! That took a while. I have a bit of warpage, but I assumed I would. Overall the lines look really straight. My welds pretty much suck, but they appear to have penetrated pretty well. The flare feels very, very, solid to the body now.

I'm still a little confused as to what I should use to grind it down at this point though, and how to finish the backside.

Here are some pics:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939523.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939546.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939568.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939590.jpg

My awesome welds. Jealous?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181939612.jpg

Here is what mine looked like after the grind-down process. I wasn't around to see what was used but was happy to see that very little body filler would be needed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181943460.jpg

Fernando...that was metal, or fiberglass?