I thought it was forged - multiple times.

There is an article in an old Christo that gives that pic and describes the pocess a bit.

Wil,

I'm sure you are right ... many newbies don't want to check ANYTHING, they just want an ANSWER to the question: What do I REPLACE??? NOW, Please?
<b>
It is beginning to seem like 'Who's on first?' by Abbot & Costello!

For example: Moron posts a thread entitled ... 'Is MSD a good replacement ignition for an SC?'

Moron: My Bosch box is dead!

Somebody asks for a bit more information about the car's condition ...

Moron posts: 'I don't have time to go out and buy a meter and do a bunch of tests! I've got to order a new ignition box for my car!'

Somebody asks if he tested the coil output directly to a new test spark plug?

Moron answers: 'No, I just pulled a spark plug and laid the connector against the engine!

Somebody asks what color was the spark plug he pulled and tested with?

Moron aswers: 'Kind of black ...'

Somebody asks about the green coax ...

Moron answers: 'Sort of green, what's left of the insulation ... what has this got to do with deciding which new ignition box to get?'

Somebody asks why he hasn't checked for power or a trigger signal?

Moron: 'Because. My ignition box is DEAD!'

And the story repeats endlessly here on this board!!!
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I believe the outer rim is roll formed after the blank is forged. If you look at the difference in OD from the 2nd to last step photo to the final photo, the OD shrinks considerably. That material is rolled out to form the rim.

So they start out as a cheesecake? Wow. German engineering.

Heres a link from a previous thread... Amazing what you can find with the search button. It shows the manufacturing of forged wheels... Lou

http://media.putfile.com/manufacturing-process---RAYs

Wil, 7282 posts -1

Zefsuper911, you have come closest to what I need. There are at least four types of 2024 aluminum alloys: 2024-O, 2024-T3, 2024-T361, and 2024-T4.

Jack, thanks for the repost. I have not been able to locate 6082, but the physical properties, that you listed, closely match 2024-T3 and 2024-T4.

Peterfrans, love the pic man.

len911, out-frikken-standing!!! I suppose Fuchs were made in a similar fashion.

dd74, that is a great question.

"I suppose Fuchs were made in a similar fashion."

- I don't think it was that similar. IIRC, all the steps were forgings on a blank. And some newer things done later on the posted movie clip were not done way back when on the Fuchs.

Remember you are looking at 1960s/70s technology & manf. processes. Also low production runs - they even painted them by dipping, not spraying for some years.

But if similar means big forging dies pressing on stuff, they yes, similar.

they're made of hopes, dreams and unicorn giggles

:)

Warren, I have noticed a real sharp edge to your posts lately, including one of mine. While I have never sold myself as an expert in anything, I am not a moron, nor do I appreciate being talked down to simply because you have more knowledge and experience. If this forum is so hard for you to deal with perhaps you should start a new one, for experts only. That way, you'll only get a post or two a month for the REALLY hard stuff. :rolleyes:


I respect you and your knowledge on this board, but I do not respect people talking down to others simply because their life has afforded them a different set of opportunities. Someday, you too could be asking a question of another person and they might think it's so basic that it irritates them too.

I will say that I agree about people not searching first, listening to advice given and a "want it now" attitude.

I hope you have a VERY nice weekend and I'll try not to bore you with my learning curve SmileWavy


-Chris

About how Fuchs stack up to modern day wheels? Yes, I thought it was a good question as well. However, no one seems able to answer it. Maybe it was in a link Wil posted. :D

They're made of pure adrenaline. That's why they get very sad when they sit in a garage and just get polished.

I don't know of any info on how Fuchs stack up to modern day wheels. There are a few wheels that are forged - most today are pressure cast, but that may have improved so much it is fine.

Part of the problem is that Fuchs are not the same sizes as most performance wheels today, so it is hard to compare.

I do feel sure that the forged Mg wheels on the C-GT are better than the Fuchs.

cbeers, I completely agree with you. I have often tried, with no success, to use the much publicized "search" button. My feeling is that if you think I'm wasting your time...don't waste my time (and yours BTW) by telling me on this forum. Just move on to another topic. MY 2 CENTS!!!
In reference to the original post...
I have seen that picture in Excellence magazine as well. There was a good article on Fuchs, describing the process and history of its evolution. I still have the copy and will look through it to see if anything of interest relates.

How do the Fuchs compare to today's performance wheels?

That sort of depends on HOW we compare: Are we still at the molecular level? Are we interested in manufacturing process? Raw materials and heat treating? Aesthetically? What?

Our reason for comparing was quite specialized - We were interested in Fuchs for our SC racer. In evaluating wheels for the track, we consider 4 criteria: Strength (against breaking), weight, torsional rigidity, and brake cooling. We found the Fuchs to be excellent on all counts. This is all the more impressive considering their age, and that they were developed for the STREET.

Keeping all that in mind, we chose BBS. Today's (and yesterday's) race wheels are very specialized. For instance, the same size 3-piece BBS are marginally lighter (magnesium centers), stronger, and the rim portions can be replaced if bent, without scrapping the entire wheel. Current design is focused on a "limp home at all costs" construction, where a puncture, or even a bend, will retain as much "round" shape as possible, allowing the racer to get back to the pits for a replacement.

Please do not ask about the magnesium - I do not have my periodic table handy . . .

Ed LoPresti

HOW we compare: - I think we should compare based on our performance specifications for a sports car wheel:
- Cheap
- Light weight
- Round
- Looks to a lesser extent

How it is made whether the bulk process of turning a material (metal or CF so far) into a wheel, or molecular level effects are merely means to and end.

Did you make measurements on the factors you mentioned? If so, want to post them?

Chris Beers and Mike aka Hoss3.0 . I don't see any reason you should take Warrens' post personal. He's merely stating his frustration with spending his time trying to help people who aren't willing to help themselves or who ask for help and don't listen when you try to guide them. It can be very frustrating. I've experienced it but no where near the level Warren has because I don't know near as much.

I don't think it's much to ask to listen to Warren when he needs to vent his frustration.

When I saw the title of this thread I thought to myself, "Well that's been discussed more than a few times and a search would reveal all the info you could ever need on the subject".

I think Warrens point is don't ask for help if you aren't willing to help yourself and I have to agree.

That being said, sure Warren could have moved on but it struck a nerve and he was compelled to comment. That's alright with me as long as he sticks around because this board needs him rough edges and all. :)

Ed - this is the type of answer I was hoping to read. An honest comparison from a racer. Were the SC's BBS wheels 16-inchers, and if so what size width?

I always understood Fuchs, even those dating back almost 40 years ago, to be still ahead of many offerings for (dare I say this) lesser cars. And there are very few others I would consider to replace my 15-inch Fuchs - which I intend on keeping.

Now what about the Lindsey wheels? They're welded three-piece, the halves, I think, being 16x6. How strong are those?

I've got to come to Warren's defense here. He has been more than helpful to me when I've posted questions about my '72T. In fact, many times he has been the first reply, if not the only reply.

My low post count can attest to the usefulness of the search function. Many threads that pertain to issues with my car are either bookmarked, stored in a file, or printed out and bound in a folder in my garage. I've been a member since '02, but a lurker since I bought my car in '99.

Warren is truly one of the best resources available on this board (or anywhere else, for that matter) and I thank him for that.

Oh yeah, to answer the original question, Fuchs are made of aluminum. :p

Carry on.

Well, let me say first that I agree, Warren is an incredible resource to this board and I even said I respected that. No defense needed. I just don't respect being talked down to, by anyone, good guy or not. So, don't take my inquiry of Warren the wrong way. I have just noticed the edge to his posts more lately. As for personal, well, he did kind of slap me around a little on one of my recent posts :) Lastly, if we only searched, what would we ask? Hasn't just about everything been covered in some way in the past? I too get irritated when a poster does not do some homework, when possible, and then doesn't follow the advice of those in the know.

I would encourage all of us to embrace the position of teacher/educator and help out our fellow P heads, even if they are not at the same level as us. I'm just trying to learn like the rest of us :)

Peace

-Chris

Guys:

Warren's frustrations mimic my own..and it seems to be a sign of the times.....

Answers are often given to posted questions...BUT...if the answer involves some WORK....like looking up a a thread that was part of the response...it all goes to H&** in a handbasket. Same goes for telling people they need to diagnose their problem more before a more thoughtful response can be offered. Result?...no...the responder says ( in effect) ... " I want an ANSWER and I want it NOW.....plus I want it HANDED to me.....I have no TIME for all this..."

Which then makes me think...why is MY time any less valuable than the guy posting the question? And how will he ever fully understand stuff for NEXT TIME, unless he does some mental and physical homework himself ?

(No response wanted or expected...although there is sure to be some....)

If you don't think this is true...look at my response here as the FIRST repsonse...and look at the linked post. How much of an answer was lacking that then requires dozens of other responses before it is even apparant that the question was already answered earlier?

- Wil