How much does its questionable history impact this car's value?

[LeeH]

There's an "interesting" 911 for sale here in Phoenix. The only trouble is that it's a bastard in the truest sense. The VIN number decodes to a 1977 911 Carrera 3.0L. However, the title says 1980. The engine is a 3.2L out of an '84 and the interior is '86 or later.

Obviously this is never going to be a concours car. It must have SOME value. Currently it's bid to $7K on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=280016960436
I was thinking it would make a great track car, but I'm worried that it's history might come back to haunt me down the road when I would try to sell it. Opinions?

[89911]

It sounds like everything done is an improvement, so if done right it would be a bonus. If done poorly, the opposite. Now you just have to determine, (or get someone to determine), which way it is. I would have no problems buying a car like this. My car has has so much done with rather poor documentation, (my mechanic isn't good with this), that it could be looked at dimly and not a car that has had more spent on it then its original cost.

[FenderGuy]

Lee

Why dont you go down and drive and see how it feels to you...theres always buyers out who will buy modded cars.

Frank

[LeeH]

Originally posted by FenderGuy
Why dont you go down and drive and see how it feels to you...theres always buyers out who will buy modded cars.

I did that yesterday. It was way tighter than I expected. Other than the brakes being a little squishy I had no complaints with the test drive... well no a/c when it's 105 in a black car wasn't much fun. I'd say it was the best shifting 915 I've driven.

There had been some sheet metal work on the passengers side under the front hood, but it didn't really look like it had been wrecked. Weird. The paint job wasn't bad, but the prep was. They didn't even lift the rubber on top of the front bumper - just taped it. Front fender/cowl rubber was painted over. Sad, because even though it was black the finish was pretty decent.

[450knotOffice]

What 89911 said is very true, especially as it pertains to mid year cars. If the mods were done well then the car will, in fact, be a better car than when it came out of the factory in terms of power, reliability and comfort.

I will say the paint job sounds like a quicky re-spray by a cheap shop just to get the car sold however. I've seen it before.

If you like the car, have it checked out carefully via a PPI.

[techweenie]

Track car.

Whatever dings the car takes for its prior history, it will also be discounted by many prospective buyers for its track use.

So get it at a good price if you can and enjoy.

But before you buy, spend some time looking at the VIN tags and under the car for evidence of clip replacement. No way a 1980 car could have been originally registered in 1977.

[FenderGuy]

Originally posted by LeeH
Well no a/c when it's 105 in a black car wasn't much fun. I'd say it was the best shifting 915 I've driven.

Lee you hit in the nail, its down right nasty these days due to the humid air, but soon that will be gone...I say go for it if you really want it, looks very nice....


Not to hijack this link(Sorry Lee) ..But i had the same question about a car i was interested on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-911-SC-Cab-1-Owner-1983-Porsche-911CS-Cabriolet-Only-72-000-Mi_W0QQitemZ200016303623QQihZ010QQcategoryZ10156QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Seller didnt even check out the car fax...there was an accident in 1991, the report even stated on its there because damage exceeded 1500. How orignal are the body parts????? Private bidding always screams of shill bidding to me...Too bad cause i've always wanted a SC cab with red interior

[LeeH]

Originally posted by techweenie
No way a 1980 car could have been originally registered in 1977.

The VIN is that of a '77 car. The title says that it's a 1980. And the troubling part is that everything on the car looks '86. Now someone could have taken an '86 and stripped every item from it and installed it on a '77 tub, but what seems to be the more likely scenario is that someone took a '77 VIN and installed it on the '86 car.

Are there some unique traits to a later tub that can be used to determine if this is the case?

[450knotOffice]

The car should have the VIN in at least two places in a later car - on the driver's side windshield frame and in the back area of the trunk just behind the fuel tank under the carpet. Obviously these should match.

[tonypeoni]

I think this car was built completely with spare parts lol.

[Bobboloo]

Errors happen on titles sometimes. I had a 72' once that said 86' on the title. The car was diffenently a 72'. It had all the 72' parts and the matching 72' VINs.

I would still make sure all three VINs match. It wouldn't hurt to check the production number behind the kneepad either. You won't no if it matches the other numbers but you should be able to tell if it's a 77'.

I like bastard 911s. They are cheaper to buy so you don't have to worry about taking a hit when you want to do mods because someone has already taken it for you. Guilt free modding!

My 73' Targa is a bastard I bought on Ebay and I love it. I bid for the value of the motor and tranny. That way I knew I couldn't loose. I lucked out and got a great car. It was a New Mexico car. Gotta love those rust free Southwest cars!

Bid for the value of the motor and tranny and when your done sell the car in three parts, motor, tranny, roller. You'll come out ahead.

[LeeH]

Bidders with 0 feedback keep bidding the car up. I'm really surprised it's this high already. Funny, but one retracted a bid yesterday. Wonder if he missed the revision about the VIN and year discrepancy.

[DonDavis]

Guys, the VIN matches (except for door jamb, it was missing there) in all locations! We've already determined that. I also drove the car and it seemed decent. Lee's question is directed more at the future. What if someone (or police) came knocking on his door later?

Are there any '86 attributes that are not on a '77 that would we could check?

[LeeH]

Originally posted by DonDavis
Are there any '86 attributes that are not on a '77 that would we could check?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'd like to know. Is there something not transferable - a unique bracket, stamping, etc.? Everything I looked at on the car suggested it was '86 or newer... radio antennae was in the windshield, rear brake light, central locking (that works fine), seat belt dates, etc.

I did call the police and DMV to ask about the car... they couldn't have been LESS interested.

[IROC]

Originally posted by DonDavis
Are there any '86 attributes that are not on a '77 that would we could check?

or vice versa?

A '77 3.0 liter Carrera should have narrow bumperettes on the rear. When did power brakes begin? Was it '77? (my '76 doesn't have them). Even though it would be harder to check, the 3.0 Carrera would not have bumper "shocks" - only metal tubes. Interesting....

Mike

[quaz]

Correct me if I am wrong, but a 77 911 3.0 is a ROW car? If that is the case then it had to be imported. I would bet it was imported in 1980 and titled as a 1980. I had a 1984 928 ROW imported in 1985 and titled as an 85. The 3.2 liter would then just be a bonus at some point.

[WesMason]

Lee - That car looks like it is at Plaza Motors, Alex Jabers place on Cave Creek. If you want to do a PPI I recommend Don Jacksons place (1931 W North Ln. Phoenix, AZ 85021). DJ is very personable and well respected. I know Beck's is just a couple blocks up the road on Cave Creek, but I have not had very good experieces with them. Just my $.02

Good luck.

[quattrorunner]

I love that car. Looks great, I hope it checks out to be OK Vin wise. Everything else looks grand.

[DonDavis]

Originally posted by WesMason
Lee - That car looks like it is at Plaza Motors, Alex Jabers place on Cave Creek. If you want to do a PPI I recommend Don Jacksons place (1931 W North Ln. Phoenix, AZ 85021). DJ is very personable and well respected. I know Beck's is just a couple blocks up the road on Cave Creek, but I have not had very good experieces with them. Just my $.02

Good luck.

It's no secret that Beck does not care for Alex. That said, a potential buyer had Beck do a PPI on this car. I saw it and it's all about the incorrect parts and not the mechanical condition. If I had paid for that PPI, I would have been pissed. Don't tell me the car has the "incorrect dash" or "incorrect battery". I want to know about potential valve guide wear of the 3.2 and the 915 condition. Brakes, shocks, electrical, etc.

BTW, I bought a car from Alex 3 years ago and was treated VERY fairly.

[450knotOffice]

Now that I've been to the eBay add, I have to say that it looks like someone went to a lot of trouble to transfer EVERYTHING from an '86 to an earlier tub (if the VIN's are real and have not been transferred somehow). And I mean EVERYTHING. It looks like an '86 in every regard except for the chrome headlight trim rings.

Either that, or someone did a VIN swap on an '86.

I'm sorry I can't help you with regard to chassis differences between the '77's and '86's. I'm not sure if there are any.

Good luck. This is getting interesting.