Exhaust
 

Here's a sample of the exhaust on the 911 V8. It's 2 1/2 Stainless and when installed on the car it all appears STOCKhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234055618.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234055632.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234055675.jpg

:)
Any photos available showing details of the cooling system? I would like to see how the RSH system exits the air from the radiator, as well as the RSH radiator itself.
I wonder if the $1100 cost for their custom radiator w fans is justified.
Also, are they now using larger 1" and 1 1/4" hoses instead of the smaller (18' of 7/8" & 26' of 3/4") ones described in the porchev web site?
Any photos of how these hoses are routed thru the rockers? How about going down the original heater tubes inside the car? These are not needed for heat any more.
Which brings up the question of heat. RSH says they have a heater core & shroud to fit the front blower assy.
Anyone have photos of this?
Len
:)

I'd like to see the details of that cooling system too. I don't want to change my fuel tank like some have done. I have seen some pictures of holes put in the wheel wells so air vents out there.

No matter what it seems something like this will have do be done to the front:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234111786.jpg

Unless you go this route (he wants $1795. for this rear mounted radiator system):
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234112088.jpg

:)

For a SC, I would rather use something like this....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234115171.jpg

but don't know if enough air can come in.

I don't want to change the fuel tank either.

My question is where does the air exit from the radiator?

Len

:)

radiator
 

len send me your email address and i will give you my phone number..much easier to discuss ....maxwedge528@charter.net

I have found pics of where the air is vented out into the wheel wells, and the spare tire is taken out and battery moved to make room for a radiator, and I have seen some ugly jobs posted on Renegade Hybrids' "Wall of Shame" that I would like to avoid. My fuel tank is virtually brand new, so I don't like the idea of changing that out.

As far as some people not liking the idea of modifying a 911 like this to begin with---I bought this 1972 911 already with a lot of modifications. For example, it was not originally a convertible, and it also has electronic windows, so this is not an original 911 to begin with. However, when I look at places on the car that I would have to cut to make room for a radiator system, I am hesitant about the idea and I am seeking more information about this whole deal.

My 911:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234116973.jpg

Another related thread I found:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/9743-glad-have-v8.html

V8
 

I have built 3 V8s. Weight pretty much equals out. Use Meziere in-line remote water pump - trouble free cooling. Be sure to take the time to properly shroud the radiator. Build vaccum lip underside of tub just before radiator hole - it is worth 15 to 20 degrees in cooling. 993 mufflers work swell.

I miss my last one (sold it for very good $ to some cat in Kuala Lampur - Malasia) but sure like my old 79 930 that I have now even though I have a hard time contorting to get into and out of it. How fast you want to go depends on how much money you have to spend. Pelicanneer Schnell knows a hell of a good welder if you need his expertise!

EP Slick - Tucsonhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234123285.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234123296.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234123309.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234123321.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234123357.jpg

Nose
 

Nose pixhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234123771.jpg

:confused:

Is this what is needed on both sides of the front trunk.........

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234128224.jpg

to exit the air from the center radiator? It looks like a lot of the structural integrity is lost.

Instead, I think I would like to try a small radiator on either side, as with the 996 & Boxster.

How does one calculate cooling capacity? Is it the Sq Inches or mm surface area of the radiator?

Len

:)

There are 2 radiators, porchev that vents out to the wheel wells, I dont like that because it seems to weaken the structure of the car, and renegade hybrids which your supposed to shorten the gas tank and vent down. Im thinking of adding a hood vent to mine and venting up as I dont want extra air going under the car. I have the renegade radiator.

:)

I just realized that RSH and Renegade are two different companies. Got to take a closer look at both.

I would rather exit the air into the fenderwells than under the car, but don't want to weaken the fender structure.

Perhaps a vent up thru the hood would be best. There is an excellent posting I just read on doing this.

Still want to know about the size & routing of the coolant hoses, w photos if possible.

Len

:)

look at
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/

and go to conversion kits\911\customer cars

if you want some pics, they dont show a lot for radiator installs though

Heater Assembly
 

Here's several pictuers of the heater assembly for my 911....http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234135408.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234135424.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234135438.jpg

I would think the best way to go would be to go with a short/wide aftermarket radiator if possible, lean it forward into the front of the tub with the bottom near the gas tank, then vent it out through the hood ala' GT40. The question is whether or not anyone makes a radiator in the dimensions that would work, and whether or not it would provide sufficient cooling?

Got a link to that posting Len?

I think thru' the hood is best, like this 525 HP 914-V8 uses;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=3ICOD1MFYLc

I am planning to go a step farther than the 914 shown in the above video, at speed you have all the energy of the air pressure going to waste usually, my thinking was to put an angled plate and side panels behind the radiator, so the area behind the radiator is sealed to the side, bottom, and back when the hood is locked down, to give a downforce effect.

And there is a theory that the outlet should be about twice the size of the radiator for better cooling, the logic I believe is that it will create a partial vacuum at the hood escape portal, thus helping to suck the air thru' the radiator better...

I got flamed hard for even asking about any conversion on rennlist. No matter what you gotta love some of the craftsmanship on these cars

:)

Here's the link on the hood vent....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/455515-how-vent-you-hood.html

Len

:)

Thanks for that link, here is another basic version of that I found somewhere:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234186408.jpg

Thanks!:D

I was originally planning on using a 914, but the 911 conversions seem substancially lighter:confused:

Another decision to make;)

:)

Thinking more about how to keep the chassis intact & maintain structral integrity up front.

Shortening the gas tank and dumping the exit air out the new opening in front of the tank seems to be the best way.

I am not going out on the track, I just want a great cruiser that goes when I hit the loud pedal.

This allows for a heater core up on the luggage tray and the battery in the smugglers box.

Still need photos of how the coolant hoses are routed along or thru the rockers or under the floor w rectangular steel tube.

Len

:)

:)

Here's what the shortened gas tank looks like...........

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234208444.jpg

Looks like there's enough room for air to exit in front of the tank. Capacity is about 15 gals.

Len

:)

coolant hoses
 

this is one of the easier tasks of the swap.the hoses are 1' and 1.25' id and fit in the area where the oil lines to the front cooler fit.. tucks up nicely...one hose on either side of the vehicle. the hoses have to pass under the front crossmember or through it. rh recommends drilling the aluminum crossmember and passing the hose through. this drilling removes most of the crossmember webbing. so i drilled and had welded into the crossmember the correct size tubing such that the rubber coolant hose is clamped on either side of the crossmember. i also pass the radiator air underneath the car as i have a custom gas tank. i would not duct it into the fenderwell areas and remember porsche did not intend for there to be heat ahead of the dash. unless your have dash sealed really well, lots of very hot air will find its way into the interior. i do think that passing the air out through the hood is best for many reasons. but, unless it is done well the aesthetics of the car will suffer. i am cooling a dart all aluminum 434 cubic inch sbc roller motor developing almost 600 chp. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234213901.jpg

Build vaccum lip underside of tub just before radiator hole - it is worth 15 to 20 degrees in cooling

e p slick, can you elaborate?

That shorter gas tank seems to be the way to go, so though Renegade Hybrids that would be:

$1,100 CUSTOM ALUMINUM RADIATOR AND DUAL FAN PACKAGE W/ ALL REQUIRED MOUNTING AND DUCTING SHEET ALUMINUM
$850 NEW, ALL ALUMINUM, 16 GAL, GAS TANK
$120 COOLANT HOSE TO RUN FROM RADIATOR TO MOTOR

However, at the Porchev site it says his version (RSH) of the radiator assembly doesn't require any changes to the gas tank, so I assume cuts would be made in the fender wells to let the air out. His is approx $900 (radiator, fans, and hoses).

Conversion Kit of Choice
 

I used all the Renegade parts for the conversion, and their stuff all works well and is very straight forward. I would not suggest cutting fender wells, the 911 is somewhat "loose" in the front end, requiring a tie bar for any real motoring. The fuel tank is one of the more difficult tasks of the job, this requires a fabrication shop along with good welding talents. I would strongly suggest not to re-invent the wheel. Renegades system is a prover and reliable system as long as you do what they suggest, especially using the cooling system and you wouln't have to work on the car after every drive. Here's another vieew of the tank in the car... Jackhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234227611.jpg

:)

I totally agree on keeping the chassis intact.

Can anyone refer me to a fellow who has done the gas tank modification?

I would rather ship the tank to him. What does this cost?

Also would still like to see photos on how the hoses are routed against the chassis, especially the larger 1 1/4" hose.

Len

:)

Here is another cooling alternative:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6505696
[Radiator system for use on automobiles having rear engines]

:)

Anyone know Daryl Care of Sarasota, FL?

He has a gorgeous Flat Nose 911 w the Renegade conversion package. They show him as a customer.

His installation follows their design to the letter, and it sure came out nice.

Our customer wants us to go with this same system, but I want to know more about the coolant hose routing through & around the front suspension & steering.

I am concerned about cutting holes through the Alum crossmember for the steering rack. Its a safety issue primarily.

I also wonder about the holes thru the pan to connect the radiator on each side.

Please email me with photos or any of this info. I am trying to do my "due diligence" and not be surprised on my estimate amount.

Thanks in advance.

Len@autosportengineering.com

:)

:)

I got this photo from Renegade showing the hose routed below the steering rack on a early 911 with the steel crossmember.........

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234711112.jpg

It looks like they ran the coolant hoses straight back under the center tunnel. They are not concerned about crushing them as they are rubber.

I would prefer to run them along the rockers. Will this hose flex enough to do that?

Len

:)

coolant
 

yes the coolant hose can be run down the rockers. i do not think that i would run them under the middle of the car.

Hose Info
 

The hoses are easy to run, the 1" runs down the left side along the rocker "lip" and up the the filler neck, and the 1 1/4 runs up the right side from the pump.
The coolant running thru the hoses provides a great amount of cooling area so this is the reason that you DO NOT want to bury them inside to rockers. I ran both of the line under and around the front suspension rails with no problem what so ever.
Using the correct hose is as important are to how you run the hose. Green or Yellow are the proper hose to use, easy to form the the underside of the car but very tough. If you send me you e~mail address ,I'll send a CD of the installion...
Hope this helps....Jack

Jack don't forget your sunglasses. There under the front hood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's actually a 914 :) It has recesses in the middle of the chassis to route the hoses in. The crossmember is the same as a 911 of course.

The lines in a 911 are typically routed along the rockers. The round early crossmember works with any year and is a little easier to go over. While you can still use the later aluminum crossmember with no modifications, it's kind of neat to go through it. You can weld in aluminum pipe to match your coolant hoses to form stubs to clamp the hose to; or go large enough to pass through entirely on the way up to the front.

Oh, and with regard to cutting up front, going with the shorter tank makes for a much cleaner installation. The Renegade tank is extremely nice, but as Jack posted, it's certainly possible to modify the stock tank. Of course the front wall is opened up to let the air in, but the shorter tank provides plenty of room for the air to exit via the stock opening. I've seen a few 911's with the sides cut to exhaust the air and it's a little scary looking. The 914 on the other hand does just fine with the sides being opened up because the design is different.

Boy am I glad that I found this thread. I have been considering doing this for some time now. Thanks to those of you who are offering guidance...

Just ask Scott at Renegade for help. He answered all my questions, even helped me on a car I bought already converted.

How happy are you guys that have done the conversion with performance? i ordered my install kit and cooling system from renegade last week, Im running a 327 with about 375 hp. its a 78 sc with a 993 front/turbo rear.

Was going to wait to my build was completed but this seems like a great thread to join. I am also doing an LS1 conversion and do not like the idea of the front mount radiator and do not care for the look of the huge radiator mounted to the rear wing so I decided to go with my own idea and use the stock wing with a custom made rear mount radiator.

I will post more pictures of my build later for those interested. This is just a sneak peak :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1236086798.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1236086838.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1236086863.jpg

I always wondered why no one tried that. Well, you're in Florida, we're going to find out f it works....

I think the whole idea of the front mounted oil cooler was to help distribute some of the weight (if it really weighs that much) and you can't fit that cooler under a standard lid. ;)

Is anyone running AC on there V8 swap? I would like to see more ideas on how to handle the HVAC controls. Thanks