Going crazy please help

slodave · slodave's Garage

Hi!

I recently preformed and completed a clutch change and with a bunch of gasket/o-ring seal/hose replacement. After getting the engine and tranny back in and starting the car, I noticed that around 2000 rpm's and up a vibration could be felt through the car and the steering wheel. It kinda feels like a: d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d. This happens in neutral or in gear. The car does not really feel like it has lost power, but I have not really been able to test it past second gear ( I am afraid at the moment to take it onto the street). I have pulled each spark plug wire while I had a friend hold the throttle at 2000 rpms. I noticed that the engine power dropped slightly each time. I am at a loss of how to diagnose this. I am very bummed and hope it is not serious.

My car has been out of commission for about a month because of the project and I would really like to drive again.

Any suggestions would be more than welcome. I have Tuesday of from work and plan on looking at it further. If anyone in the San Fernando Valley or L.A. has time and wants to help, please let me know by PM. I would be very grateful for any in person help on this.

EDIT: Two more things. 1) I di install 4 new WEVO SS mounts 2) the engine has about 224,000 miles and no top end rebuild. I am hoping that the latter is not the source of my problems.

Thank you!!!!

Dave

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Did you tighten all the motor and transmount bolts?

Did you have this problem prior to the tran rebuilt?

2.7RACER · 06:32 PM

Dave,
Sounds like your CV bolts are loose. I'm assuming you only get the d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d noise when the car is in motion.
If the bolts are original I would recommend you get new ones and while you are at it get some schnoor washers.
M8 bolts need 30 lbs torque, the larger M10's need 60 lbs.
Recheck after a hundred miles or a week.
Take one bolt with you to get the same length. Some are 45mm some are 50mm.
Make sure the torx tool or allen wrench is in good shape.
Good luck,

Early_S_Man · 08-20-2006, 06:31 PM

It is my understanding that the Wevo mounts transmit more noise and vibration to the cabin than OEM stock mounts. You may just be hearing gear noise that was present all along, but wasn't being transmitted to the cabin!

slodave · slodave's Garage

Thanks for the replies.

This happens in neutral as well as in gear. I understand that different mounts will change the feel, I had a very nice stiff VW Scirocco and remember the feeling from that, but this seems different.

I did repack and replace all four cv bearings and boots, the bolts are 45mm and all are new and I don't think they are loose, as I just installed them and the car really has not been driven yet.

Tranny was not rebuilt, just replaced clutch. The motor and tranny mounts should all be tight. I know the engine mounts are, because I had just torqued them down and had to undo that to lower the engine a bit to free up one of the heater hoses, then I retightened the engine bolts. I remember this clearly :-)

Dave

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Try the spark plug wire test at idle and not 2000 rpm. If you have a cylinder that is missing, sometime it is cover up if the engine is racing. It is easier to identify a missing cylinder at low rpm then high rpm.

slodave · slodave's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
Try the spark plug wire test at idle and not 2000 rpm. If you have a cylinder that is missing, sometime it is cover up if the engine is racing. It is easier to identify a missing cylinder at low rpm then high rpm.

Did not think of that. Thank you for the tip! I will try that.

Dave

slodave · slodave's Garage

450knotOffice suggested that the flywheel might be out of balance. I did have it resurfaced by a reputable shop. Ugh, I really don't want to tear the car apart again.

Dave

lateapex911 · 08-20-2006, 08:23 PM

I might, out of scientific curiosity, want to pop the Wevos out and put the stockers back in. Fire it up, see what it feels like. At least you'll know if it was existant before, or if it's new, and that makes it easier to diagnose.

slodave · slodave's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by lateapex911
I might, out of scientific curiosity, want to pop the Wevos out and put the stockers back in. Fire it up, see what it feels like. At least you'll know if it was existant before, or if it's new, and that makes it easier to diagnose.

Um, due to the cross member breaking, I took the engine mounts away from the hanger to salvage the engine mount bolts. The engine mounts are in a trash dump by now.

Dave

450knotOffice · 450knotOffice's Garage

Dave, if I were you, I'd PM Dave B at TRE and Tyson Schmidt and tell them all that you did and what's happening now. I'm sure these guys can help you figure this out.

I might be able to help you turn wrenches if you need to pull it apart again.

slodave · slodave's Garage

How about the pressure plate being out of balance? I used a SACHS Power Clutch kit from PP. A mechanic friend suggested this after VW had some issues with SACHS pressure plates that were made in Brazil and were found to be out of balance.

Dave

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by slodave
How about the pressure plate being out of balance? I used a SACHS Power Clutch kit from PP. A mechanic friend suggested this after VW had some issues with SACHS pressure plates that were made in Brazil and were found to be out of balance.

Dave

Any thing is possible. The only way to determine that is to take it out and send it back to the manufacturer. Did they balance the flywheel after grinding it?

In a perfect world, the clutch plate, pressure plate flywheel and crank will be balance as a complete unit, but that's in a perfect world, and as we all know, this world is far from perfect.

450knotOffice · 450knotOffice's Garage

It sounds like you need to pull the thing apart again. Sorry about all of that.

slodave · slodave's Garage

I talked with the guy that resurfaced the flywheel. One recommendation was to send the pressure plate back to SACHS, but I'd rather not go that route due to the turn around time. He also suggested that I bring my flywheel, pressure plate, starter ring and pp bolts and they can then test to see if the unit is in balance or not. He could then make a recommendation as to have him balance the unit or if not then I would have to send the pp back to SACHS.

Dave

slodave · slodave's Garage

I'm pretty sure I am going to be taking out my engine and tranny again tomorrow (Tuesday 8/22). Anybody in the Los Angeles area want to help? I'd really like to get it out by 3:30-4:00, so that I can get it to the pressure plate and flywheel to the machine shop. Thanks in advance!!!

Dave

Grady Clay · 08-22-2006, 06:45 AM

Dave,

If a pull-type cutch isn’t pulled up slowly and evenly all around it can break the diaphragm spring or even the main aluminum casting. Some all-aluminum clutches can have damaged locating pins or reaction torque springs. This allows the moving part of the pressure plate to be off-center and cause a vibration. You can check for this by measuring the clearance between the moving plate and the housing all around the perimeter.

Are you sure the flywheel is tight to the crankshaft? Can there be some issue with a replacement pilot bearing? Are the clutch cover bolts the correct length and lock washers installed? (Too long bolts can contact the crankcase.)

Before you unscrew the clutch, measure the runout of the various parts.

Best,
Grady

kucharskimb · 08-22-2006, 07:54 AM

i like the way grady is thinking.

perhaps the pressure plate never seated correctly to the flywheel. one thing i have learned is to always turn the motor over when you have it out of the car after you have attached the tranny to it. good time to find out before it's back in the car...

are you able to look in the bottom of the tranny access hole and see if there are metal shavings? you could also pull out the plugs and turn the motor over by hand (wrench--not ignition) and have a partner look underneath for shiny spots on the pressure plate as it passes the hole.

slodave · slodave's Garage

Thank you for the suggestions Grady and Matt. I will try to take a look before removing the engine/tranny again. I did have a mechanic out this morning and he confirmed that it is a rotational problem. I am pretty sure that the flywheel and pp are on correctly. I don't have anybody to help me

I'm off to the hanger once again.

Dave

450knotOffice · 450knotOffice's Garage

I would love to but my wife is getting up at 3:30 PM and then we have to go to the OC convention center to work a booth for a few hours. If I'm late, she'll kill me.