964 can't handle a stripped out SC?!
 

Hi there

Happy Sunday evening everybody. Hope you all had a nice weekend.

Today, I was at the Ventura Autofest and enjoyed myself immensely. However, I came home early and at around dusk decided to take the 911SC out again for a nice cruise on the highway.. afterall, I was still very amped from seeing all those nice Porsches at the autofest.

Anyhow to get to the point. I'm cruising along on the highway at about 70-75mph which isn't ridiculous speeds on a California Highway. To get to the point, on my drive I notice a convertible 964 come up and pass me so I give him a thumbs up and he waves and we both smile. So we drive for awhile (me behind him, vice versa) but as soon as I step on it and weave through a little traffic I notice that everytime he tries to match my 911 he ends up swerving very badly and looks a lot like he's out of control.

Here are my suspension settings. 22front 28rear sander hollow torsion bars. 22front and rear weltmeister sways. Corner balanced and aligned by a very reputable shop. HD front and Sports rear(bilsteins) on top of a triangulated strut brace in the front. Now having been to a few DE's, I'm just a run of the pack guy. But I couldn't help but notice how wobbly his 964 was. I know that 964s have coilovers. Can the suspension wear as time goes on? or what was his deal? His car did not stick like mine, I just couldn't stop laughing at the state of his 'newer' Porsche.

Please someone, give me an explanation. Was he just a bad driver? I mean he has a 3.6 back there as well?

Is my car better balanced?

I've read that the SC/RS were specified by Porsche to have 22 front and 27.5 torsion bars. Maybe that explains it all right there.

I do not know what it is like over there in the US, so I can not really comment to much here. But, every time that I am out with my SC here in Sweden there is someone in either a nice new flashy something or a pimped up thing wanting to have a go. Whilst I am happy to entertain them a bit, I do not like to drive dangerously or to far above the speed limit.
I do my racing on a track during arranged DE and track days. At the end of the day I know what my car can and can not do, and more importantly what I feel safe to do on a public road.
I am sure that there are a number of kids with pimped cars in our part of town who believe that they have cars that are much faster than mine. But only because I will not drive as recklessly as them. Should I ever meet them on a track, I am sure the story would not be the same!!

I am not trying to say that you are a bad driver, more that it is not really that easy to compare the power and handling between two cars on a public road when you are driving against someone you do not know!!

I was with you up until this point: "and weave through a little traffic "

Old all season tires, tiptronic, inexperienced driver. Nay Nay on the "through light traffic" Take it to the track and report back how a well set up 964 does againt you.

DUI

no way....need closed track with limited variables and equal drivers (as possible) and the 964 would be the better car I would think. You didn't mention how many old ladies or school children you almost hit so that may be a factor.

Good grief just scold the dude to death...like no one else has ever weaved threw traffic !!!!!!! If we wanted a CHP I will call ya all !!!!!!!!!

964: heavy cab + tired stock suspension + old rubber + minimum maintenence = slow
SC: lighter car + fresher suspension + decent rubber + better maintenence = fast

Oh yeah.... Take it to the track

There is a difference between weaving thru traffic, and admitting you weave thru traffic on a public BBS. I NEVER weave thru traffic…;)

Yea, dont need this place policed by the Gestapo

I notice that none of the criticism comes from people who live in CA. I lived in the SF area for 5 years and the highways have to be experienced to be believed. After living there, I absolutely believe that "weaving through a little traffic" was probably appropriate and safe. People on the freeways there drive VERY aggressively compared to everywhere else I have lived. 99% of the time, you will be eaten alive (i.e. cut off, flipped off, run off the road) if you show any sign of courtesy or hesitation. I needed a different set of driving skills while living there just to cope without being as aggressive as most of the drivers. Of course, people are nicer outside of rush hour (10pm-3am). Don't critize the guy until you have walked a mile in his shoes (or driven a year in CA).

I agree - Man I bet it was a real culture shock moving to Apex - I lived in Clayton and hated it when I got stuck behind a tractor!!

Agree 100%... Lived in and loved San Diego for a few years back when and never truly adjusted to the traffic... Truly unreal! Milwaukee, Chicago, etc... Have NOTHING on southern Cali highways...

I also agree that it becomes very tiresome when the 'drive only at the track' crowd jumps someone's poop at the slightest notion of anything other than grandma driving. While I do not condone street racing of any kind, I highly doubt someone who is 'older', drives a well cared for and loved SC, done a few DEs, etc. would be driving in a manner that would endanger others... Give 'em a break!

Eric

"I also agree that it becomes very tiresome when the 'drive only at the track' crowd jumps someone's poop"

+1

Funny comments here - But I guess these apply to all that post on the internet - let me give you a "possible scenerio"

stevierayvaughn - love your music, btw - he is an accomplished driver, knows his car and what it's capable of - Drives spirited, meanwhile, dolt in the 964 cabriolet - thats actually his sister's car with original tires "tries to match my 911 he ends up swerving very badly and looks a lot like he's out of control."

Now let's say he looses in in a curve, back end steps out and he hits a bus load of nuns. Witness says it looks like the two Porsche's were "racing", which, actually they were just "spirited driving"

Guess what, steverayvaughn is now in a world of hurt.

That's why I said what I did - and I can't count how many times I've been reved at the light. It's just not worth it.

Sure, I'm not a hypocrite either - I've wrung the car out on a few occasions - but I'm the only one around to witness it.

And I have also driven in California - lived out there for 18 months. I actually think that Houston is worse.

Tsk, tsk, tsk....
I'm betting the "weaving through a little traffic" was hardly dangerous. Someone simply going from lane to lane, near or slightly above the speed limit is probably not going to kill Granny or the kids. I don't recall the man saying that he cut anyone off or made any other sudden, bothersome moves. Where there is room, there is the urge to go there...:rolleyes:
As a related "incident" I would offer the last time my son was in my Carrera with me, in our neighborhood, just down the street. We came from a stop sign, turned right, just down the road from home, and I jumped on it and of course got to 30 MPH in a heartbeat. Actually I wonder if this car has a chip......:eek:
Anyway, I didn't endanger a sole. had perfectly clear view of all the surrounding areas, including the houses, walks, drives, etc., but still some pot belly comes out and hollars at me once I pulled into my driveway.
Yeah, of course there was a good bit of racket from the engine when I popped my son's eyes wide, but no harm was imminent, I know. Guess I should have gone over to "Grumpy" and explained the removal some while back of the sound pad...... :D
Drivin' hard legally and lovin' it.........:cool:

Let’s say he drives like a Grandma, Some Dolt in a 964 drives beside him, swerves and around like an idiot, and takes out a bus full on Nuns. Now let’s suppose someone says “Looked like two Porsches were racing.”

I see the same result.

True...

If you use your blinkers and not really speeding. It's OK in California!

I got stopped for NOT USING my blinkers to signal a lane change. So now I signal when weaving through a little traffic. No problems!!!!!!!!!!

Jeremy makes an excellent point!

Thanks for thinking clearly J!

+1 on this. Weaving through traffic is a way of life around the bay area and shall continue to be so until someone in control finally decides to step up to the plate and overhaul our nearly worst in the world driver education system.

Left lane = slow idiots in 4th gear who are too clueless or lazy to give way for faster traffic.

Right lane = nearly empty.

Weave away...

ianc

Apex would have not been too bad, I actually moved to Morgantown, WV. Once, during the first week I lived in WV, driving home at night I looked in my rear view mirror and I could not see anything. I fiddled with it for 10 seconds or so until I realized that I could not see anything there because was not any thing there (except pitch black night). It took me about 2 years to lose my city paranoia. Apex is a nice compromise, though.

If home is where I hang my hat, then any road is my track..not that I go racing every time I go for a tool, but one better have their hat on or ya get run over for being to slow...cant Winn here...too fast, to slow. Go to the track,...all I know is I do not do anything too weird if lil old ladies are crawling around in the street with Gerber goblin tricycle motors..I dont condone street racing at all ...but have been known to get into the spirit of things once in awhile.....I know no one else here has ever exceded the speed limit............................................. ......

The only problem is you don't know if the other driver even knows how to drive AND you don't know how the old lady on the road is going to react or over react to one of your moves. Things on the highway start at 75 quickly go over 100 fast (not that I know).

On the other hand - If a SUV pulls up next to you and a 10 year old kid is gawking at your car - you OWE it to him to make it scream and set the disease in his mind! Zero to the posted speed in the fastest way possible of course.

There have been enough street-racing related deaths in So. Cal. for anyone to know that at least here, it's a very dangerous act in which to engage.

With that said, there's no reason your SC cannot beat a 964. On Saturday at Willow Springs, I ripped a new one into a $150,000 Ford GT.

In short, it's about the driver. And the only place you can really test both driver and car on an equal playing field, is a race track, preferably with some corners.

That reminds me why I own a 911 ...was 14 yrs old driving my sisters boyfriend 327 Impala convert threw the Adirondacks.( NO slouch either) Summer time, was passing everything in sight (dumb kid) but then came a line of cars ahead of me and curves and hills...could not get around this bunch....after a 1/2 hour or so of adrenaline pumping tries- I hear this racket behind me ! It was shifting gears,sreeeming and Almost gone by the time I woke up my sisters drunk boy friend, but got him to ID it . 911 !! Well that was the bug, got the itch, from then on I feel its my obligation to help someone else dream wake up.

Thanks for all the posts. I can accept criticism, but I think some of you have Delusions of Grandeur. What I mean by weaving through a little traffic is going by cars as referred by someone earlier that are doing 65 in the left lane. That is all. I did not exceed 85-90 as I am educated enough to know that it is the CHP's call to impound your car at those speeds. Btw, 90 is the average around California's highways FYI.

My main point was that I hear people say get the newest you can afford.. well that sounds groovy and all but These SC's and Carrera's are a beast when properly set up. Thanks for listening.

((( SSSSHHHH.... most of us are on your side ))))))) we can let them the rest critique from their lofty throne ...(((thats probly all they have ever done ))) never drove the P car fast on city street....yea right

I knew you were doing only what you were doing. That's Carrera talk, very similar to SC talk, as you obviously know. Gotta go now, I sense a little traffic in the area..........:D
'86 Targa, freshly lowered and aligned, and noisy. :p SmileWavy

Now the speed limit on I-275 (or THE 275 to you SoCal types) going through downtown St Pete is 65mph. Now does anyone really have a problem if someone, say in a hopped up 930, happens to reach the legal speed limit from 10 mph or so at the bottom of the entrance ramp in say, oh, 3 or 4 seconds? before they are halfway up said ramp? lol. Hey......the speed limit is 65 mph. The law is the law and we merely obey.....SmileWavy As for the rest of you, butch up, Nancy!!!!!!! tell you wife that she WILL take your testicles out of her Fendi purse and put them back where they belong....hee, hee

Huh? I didn't understand a word of that...

I think that guy is trying to buy a purse - must be an ebay person who got lost here.

he says buck up !!!

The CHP have a term, "lane shopping" (excessive lane changes, even if at legal speed and legal signal for each lane change). Ask any CHP how often they write tickets for this offense - you might be surprised. That behaviour is interpreted by the law as agressive driving and is considered a possible symptom of road rage.

Like it or not, agree or disagree, eventually you'll get busted if it becomes your routine to drive that way, no matter how factually safe it may be to do so by any other analysis than that of "The Law". "But officer, I never went over 60 and the limit's 70, I didn't cut anyone off and I always signaled!" will, most likely, only result in the cop pressing down harder on his pen to make sure you get a clear carbon copy of your ticket.

Not at all a finger wag, just a forewarning for those who don't know about this law.

Interesting. Where would one find reference to this in the vehicle code?

ianc

What it means is drive like you want within reason, try not to attract attention too much attention,,,,shouldn't be hard....surely you don't think that you ave the only P-car in Califonrnia....lol......and stop whining........NO Porsche owner other than my mother drives below the speed limit, but she is 66 and has had cataract surgery. If SoCal or The Peoples Republic of Buggeria....oops....I mean San Franscisco...... are bad places to drive, go out into the desert or up in the hills on weekends and take out your agrro on some straight roads where your V1 can see the cops 10 miles away.....lol Try Napa on a nice weekend....you very well may be the only person who isn;'t swerving, so perhaps your high rate of speed won't draw as much attention as it normally would.

ha ha this is funny...amazing how anyone would think a little road time in California makes you freakin Richard Petty. I will disagree that just because everyone is aggressive and poor drivers that does not make you a better driver. BTW I am not finger pointing...I know I am not the best driver and often make poor choices and speed where I probably should slow down a bit, just pointing out what I believe to be bogus.

Wow, that was almost Faulkner-like writing. Faulkner wrote drunk, too. :p

"Where would one find reference to this in the vehicle code?"

Most states will have an index or a contents page. But I'd try to find a pamphlet for new drivers and look in that.

Almost every or every state has something like this - it's harder to prove so a cop will usually cite for something more clear.

Truth be told, I don't know if "lane shopping" is in and of itself against the law, but have known several people who were stopped and ticketed as a result of making a lot of lane changes (don't know what code violation was on their tickets) and some months ago watched a guy get pulled over who was within visual distance of me, using all 5 lanes of the freeway to try to gain ground for probably a good 5 or 7 miles (he wasn't gaining ground, he always signaled and he was in traffic that was going and slowing between 55 & 65 -didn't look to me like he was causing brake lights to come on).

I asked a local sheriff supervisor, who was having his 911 serviced at the same shop I do, about this and he was no more specific in his answer than to say that it draws attention, it's a good way to get pulled over and if the cop has gone that far its his word against yours that you were driving recklessly, agressively or whatever he chooses to cite you for.

I play it safe and do my speeding in the two slowest lanes (ironically usually the most open if all of the lanes are generally clogged) keeping track of escape ramps as I look as far back as I can in my rear view mirror for a closing cruiser. Actually, I avoid the freeways if I can afford the time - no twisties or shifting makes for a dull ride.

For a major speed burst, wait till the bars close on a Sat. night, be alcohol free, hang in the slow lane and let several packets of cars fly by at 80-85 (if there's a cop out he'll likely be closing in on a speeding packet), have an on ramp picked as your downshift point, time it so you get to that point between packets, look back up the on ramp for a sitting squad car, if none, open it up and pass the packet in the fast lanes, that just passed you, like they're sitting at the curb, get off at the next off ramp and slink home on back streets just to play it safe.

I know a guy who did this a few years back and got his RX7 R1 to an indicated 163 with an empty lane between him and the packet
he passed.

Definitely not a smart thing to do, but 163 was pretty exciting in the dead of night. He hadn't planned to do this in advance, is lucky to have not ended up in jail, with his car impounded and I don't plan to do it again.