G50 Clutch suddenly gone - rattle noise now

amatow · 08-03-2006, 06:41 AM

87 3.2 with G50.

Without notice, my clutch no longer operates. It dropped to the floor and would not disengage. I had to stall the engine at stops and limp home in 1st for 2 miles.

There was a random rattle, sounded like dragging an exhaust pipe on the ground or shanking a stone in a pop-can. It stopped after a minute of driving.

Since it was late last night, I didn't see anything dragging and could not look it over this morning.

I'm guessing the slave cylinder is messed up or some part of the the throw out bearing linkage is toasted.

Any thoughts or suggestions to look for as I inspect it this weekend?

Quicksilver · 08-03-2006, 07:23 AM

It is obviously linkage related. I would check under your feet first simply because you can do that without getting dirty. Remove the 10mm nut and lift the floorboard up and make sure that pedal movement translates to master cylinder movement. If it does then you can crawl under and get dirty.

jimbauman · 08-03-2006, 07:47 AM

Check this thread for a possible g50 broken case problem...

Broken G50 case

JB

john walker's workshop · 08-03-2006, 07:48 AM

hopefully the release fork cross-shaft ears didn't break off.

amatow · 08-03-2006, 06:27 PM

Is there any way I can tell if the ears are gone without dropping the engine?

I've dropped 2 VW beetle engines and found that strangely fun. I had little fear since those parts were cheap. I was wondering if the 911 was more diffecult or possibly less.

don911 · don911's Garage

I don't think you can tell without dropping the engine. You might be able to get an idea if you jack it up and reach up and wiggle the clutch fork.
Was the clutch pretty stiff before this happened?

I've had a cross shaft ear break but it was when I removed the shaft while breaking the tranny apart from the motor. The good news is that it can be fixed with some welding.

masraum · 08-03-2006, 08:09 PM

I bet you probably can tell. It's normally the ear nearest the slave cyl. I bet you'd be able to tell by trying to wiggle things around under there. When mine broke, I also got the occasional rattle. Be glad you only had to limp home a mile or two. The first time mine broke I was 30 miles on the other side of town. My drive home was freeway, but I got stuck in about 2 miles of stop and go. I was amazed that the starter didn't melt. The second time was when the welded repair didn't hold. Then I was on my way to training. I had to drive the last 10 miles to training, and then at the end of the day I had to drive the 25 miles back home. Fortunately both times most of the driving was freeway. I found that if I got it into first gear as I approached the toll boths that I could throw the money and the gate would go up as I rolled under.

masraum · 08-03-2006, 08:10 PM

PS I got a tranny from Oklahoma Foreign, they had a tranny from an '87 that had 85K miles. Cost me $1500.

jevvy · 08-04-2006, 01:00 AM

you should be able to tell if you can get the car in the air a bit, take the left rear wheel off and then just start having a look around. If you remove the clutch slave cylinder(on top of the tranny with 2 bolts) you should then be able to reach in through that hole and the other access hole that is covered by a rubber plate, it should be obvious if you have broken parts in there as the clutch fork wont only pivot it will rattle about a bit.

Next phase would be to pull the cross shaft(search on this) - I managed to do this with the engine in the car to lube it up a bit but please remember to hold the top of the fork through the slave cylinder hole as you withdraw the shaft and have something to hand ready to replace the cross shaft (think I used a small socket set wrench)or you may lose the fork down to the bottom of the clutch area and that would be a nightmare.

87coupe · 87coupe's Garage

You should be able to see if the ear is broken, might need to use a mirror. Here is what it should look like (obviously
yours will have the cross shaft in place).

amatow · 08-04-2006, 01:35 PM

I removed the slave. The clutch release fork moves back and forth smoothly and freely. I was surprized I could move it at all. I would have expected it to be forced in the direction toward the slave cylinder.

As far as I can tell the aluminum case at the bearings in intact.

Is movement of the fork typical? I would not expect that.

My slave cylinder rod is very loose in the cylinder. It is as if a ball and socket are used at the cylinder. Could it be that the rod from the cylinder is broken?

don911 · don911's Garage

Broken clutch fork?

amatow · 08-04-2006, 06:59 PM

Jevvy suggests removing the shaft. I'm not sure what this will tell me. I understand that this needs to be done if I want to drop the engine anyway. Is that true?

I assume if it is not the master or slave, then the engine needs to drop. Any other places to look?

pjv911 · pjv911's Garage

Sounds like a cracked release bearing coller. Looks like its time for a pull pull.

Kurt Williams

jevvy · 08-05-2006, 01:36 AM

Slave cylinder rod being wobbly is normal.

If you pull the shaft you will be able to tell for sure if the ears are broken off your case but you must keep a hold of the top of the fork through the slave hole as you pull the shaft, once you have replaced the shaft with something else then you can leave go at the top and have a look about.

If it is pivoting really easily than it might be that the ears have cracked allowing it to wobble freely.

Might you have a bubble in your system, perhaps the resevoir got low? you could try a bleed if you havent doen that already?

amatow · 08-05-2006, 05:24 AM

I've seen many posts describing how diffecult it is to pull the clutch fork shaft even when the trans and engine out of the car. I assume it will be tough to do while still in the car.

Is there any suggestions for removal while still in the car? I agree that using a tool to slide in an hold the fork in place is a good move.

jevvy · 08-05-2006, 05:40 AM

have you checked that your slave works as it should - I would do that before I start pulling the shaft?

The shaft can be a bugger to get out and another thing I have just thought is that you probably have the old roller bearings in your fork which if all dry may fall out when you pull the shaft - you will then be committed to dropping the engine.

If you go for pulling the shaft I tried all sorts of pulling methods on mine and it wouldnt budge - I then 1 day tried tapping it first and it slid INWARDS a tiny bit and then pulled out really easily.

Like I said at the top I would be makin sure everything upstream of the slave is 100% working well and that you have blend the slave well.

Ned nyna 11 · 08-11-2006, 03:55 AM

Amatow,
Did you find out the cause of the problem?

amatow · 08-11-2006, 02:07 PM

not yet.

I have not pulled the eng/trans.

I am getting up the courage.

Porsche84 · Porsche84's Garage

Check for the Porsche bulletin on this problem(noise/rattle). They have an upgraded slave (same as 964) and improved shaft bearings. The shaft will be a ***** to remove, and is best to do out of the car.