996 vs M3

Jandrews · 10-10-2006, 12:29 PM

In model year range 1999 - 2004, can anyone compare and contrast some of the following:

o Straight-line acceleration
o Track handling
o Comfort around town
o Ease of modification
o Overall fit and finish
o Overall driving experience
o Cost to purchase
o Cost to maintain / own

Considering both of these supercars for my next purchase. Commuter car with 3 or 4 DE's per year.

Thanks,

JA

masraum · 10-10-2006, 01:03 PM

Are those years the pre 333 hp years for the M3? If that's the previous gen M3, then the 996 will walk all over them. If it's the 333 hp models then that's different.

Lots of that stuff like "cost to purchase" you should be able to figure out by looking in your local classifieds, autotrader.com, etc....

GrantG · GrantG's Garage

333hp version started in 2001 (996 started in 1999) - so some overlap of both E36 (240hp) and E46 (333hp). I assume the poster was referring to the E46. Remember that the 996 also had some changes along the way (3.4L vs. 3.6L, etc.).

Generally speaking, the Porsche is better on the track (brakes & handling, steering feel), while the M3 is zippy (great motor - when not grenading) although heavy...

M3 is a great street car though...

mnmike · 10-10-2006, 02:08 PM

m3 will make a better all around car for both street and track. As far as acceleration and handling, they're very close. Im sure the 996 has a bit better brakes (after all, nothing beats porsche brakes right?). Modifying either can cost a lot, but generally theres more aftermarket and probably a tad cheaper for the m3. Id say go drive both and see what you think.

K. Roman · K. Roman's Garage

I don't like the M3 brakes. I don't think they even compare to Porsches. I've actually crashed an M3 because I couldn't slow down quick enough. I was going about 45 and the car in front of me slammed on the brakes because she got cut off, and I was trailing at least 5 cars behind. Not much damage but i know that wouldn't have happened in the 993. The brakes got too squishy.

Jandrews · 10-10-2006, 02:51 PM

Good clarification... Really, I was looking for a comparison between the E46 and the 3.4L 996's. I listed the year range to capture the overlap, but didn't clarify what I was looking for.

Thanks,

JA

Eagledriver · 10-10-2006, 02:55 PM

I'd be more afraid of the BMW blowing up on the track. I've seen it happen. Never seen a 996 blow up. Other consideration is the resale value, 911's tend to keep more value although the 996 not as much as the earlier cars.

-Andy

Emission · Emission's Garage

They are both very different cars.

Do you have kids? The M3 has a real back seat.
Carry things? The M3 has a real trunk.

The Porsche is more fun to drive, and will do better on the track (I think it is about 300 pounds lighter - correct me if I am wrong).

I wouldn't own either without an extended warranty.

anthony · 10-10-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

The brakes got too squishy.

I'm curious how you could feel the brakes getting squishy. You'd think the ABS would have been activated in a panic situation like that.

Lukesportsman · 10-10-2006, 04:36 PM

Not a flame, but I'm with Anthony. How could brakes get "squishy" under an emergency street braking, unless you had air, bad fluid, inappropriate pads, wavy rotors or the like.

The M3 specs very well in 60-0 stops, I think the weakness shows after repeated stops on the track. The C5 Vette is much the same. Shoot, the Range Rover stops great once or twice! Rover on track is a scary idea at 5000+ lbs, but fact is that it brakes on the street very well.

5 car links catching you off guard may be unfair to dismiss the M3. By the way I don't own a Bimmer.

DB_NC_95C2 · 10-10-2006, 04:54 PM

I had a 2002 E46 M3 'stripper' (no sunroof, cloth seats, only option was stereo and something else, xenons maybe?). I bought it to be a dual purpose track car & daily driver. It fit the bill very well, but front brakes needed cooling hoses to cope so I rigged up backing plates and hoses, that saved the brakes. Car was nicely balanced but when its connecting rod bearings started melting BMW's abysmal 'customer service' chased me right into a Porsche showroom. I felt the M3's seating position and center of gravity were too high.

I would have preferred a C2, but the C4S in stock was a no-sunroof with sport seats, I was hooked when I saw it. I then put in a tequipment bar and harnesses. The C4S was far more confidence-inspiring, so I imagine a C2 would have been even better being a bit lighter. I pulled out the C4S's mufflers and ran straight off the cats. The lower (felt like lower center of gravity) seating position, brakes, and overall feel of the car in my opinion was far superior. I've never driven a car I so connected with that was so confidence-inspiring.

I figure the C4S and M3 were similar in power-to-weight after I removed the mufflers, allowing for the 333hp in the M3 vs 320 in the C4S. I FAR AND AWAY preferred the feel of the Porsche, with brakes totally stock you could stand on all day with no fade or cooling necessary. I like the engine in the rear, about the only time I felt the drive move to the front was climbing the backside of VIRs north course in the wet, otherwise it drove like RWD.

Best time I ever had was at Roebling, my ex-fiance went out on slicks she had scarfed out of the VIR G&W Motorsports cast-off pile. I went out 5 cars behind her in my heavier street-Pirelli'd C4S, caught and passed her (she was a decent driver but wasn't getting out of the slicks what she should have). We were way too competitive to be in a relationship.

Porsche, there is no substitute.

mkimber · mkimber's Garage

I wish I could legitimately weigh in this thread, but I am a few models behind. I have a 87 Carrera and a 98 M3 as a daily driver. The M3 is quicker, but I'll take the Porsche anytime I want to have some fun and fling around the track or some nice twisty, backroads.

K. Roman · K. Roman's Garage

Squishy...I felt that by applying the brakes, not slamming them but good pressure, just made the brakes feel like they weren't slowing down quick enough. The pads were fine, the rotors were fine, it just didn't stop like a Porshce (my porsche) would. Also, I don't like the feel of the steering. Too much power steering. Feels squishy too.

yelcab1 · 10-11-2006, 05:41 PM

I take my M3 everyday to work, I need to pick up my baby girl after work and I need a real rear seat, plus tons of fun.

I do miss driving the Porsche everyday, eventhough it is a little slower.

Can't compare a 996 to an E46 M3, though.

petevb · 10-11-2006, 06:00 PM

Can I vote for none of the above? I had a 2002 M3 for a while-
Great motor, but the fragile rep is true- mine had to have the cam replaced, etc.
Fair brakes (rumbly and only fair feel, but decent stopping power).
Busy ride- I'm not a fan of the shock and spring settings, but the car power slides (fun but not fast) very well.
With the high seating position it felt like a GT more than a sports car.
I liked the car, but not enough for the money or to deal with the motor problems, especially if you're tracking it.

I raced early 996s on the autobahn, and there was little between them up through crazy speeds (though my euro car was a tad stronger than the standard US ones). I also liked the fact that you could drive the car with the throttle so easilly- where a 911 will hook the tail, the M3 will kick it out- really the biggest reason to buy the car, if you like that sort of thing.

On the 996... I'd go for the 993. The M3 will be slightly quicker, but the feel and proven track reliability of the 993 win out for me. The 996, while faster, seems fragile in comparison (though better than the M3)... and I just don't like them that much.

Jandrews · 10-11-2006, 06:05 PM

Some interesting comments here. I am somewhat surprised to hear the suspension and brake comments on the M3. I am trying to pick the one that does everything well, and the 996 seems to be emerging in that category. We know the 996 is an incredible chassis and has good power, and I am not hearing anyone say that it is unbearable around town or as a commuter. Sounds like very little compromise. The M3 sounds like a wonderful street car / commuter, but maybe not as adaptable to the track without mods?

Any specific comments on straight-line acceleration on the E46 vs 996?

JA

DB_NC_95C2 · 10-11-2006, 06:21 PM

Well, if you look at the cars I have now, you'll see that I think straight-line acceleration is overrated. After all the cars I drove on track (two of them being the two you're comparing, E46 M3 and 996 C4S, before them an Alfa Milano and some time in a friend's Boxster and another friend's E36 M3) I've grown to prefer lighter more 'tossable' cars. I had an Audi B5 S4 that by the time I had finished with software, exhaust and turbo mods, would blow the doors off either an E46 M3 or 996 in a straight line, but that's before I started driving a lot on track. For the street, I think straight line focus is a waste, on track it's nice to have power but more importantly to put down the power you have and carry speed through corners. Hence a Porsche. I was very happy with my C4S as a daily driver, more happy when it was on track.

makaio · 10-11-2006, 07:33 PM

I just went through your delima about 7 months ago.

The M3 driver seat is defiantly taller and the brakes on the M3 will not take the abuse of track driving like the Porsche's. I don't find the ride too harsh even when I have the 19" wheels on, but the 18" wheels are much better IMHO for every day driving. I read all the concerns of the M3's motor before pulling the trigger so I made sure and went with a CPO car. Even if I would have went with the 996 I would have made sure it was a CPO car. I found the exhilaration of straight line speed in both cars to be similar.

My M3 is my daily driver now, and I commute twice a week 130 miles round trip on a two lane back road. In some parts it's as smooth as Thunderhill raceway, in others it's like the streets of Detroit. I have to panic stop at least once a month for deer, and the brakes are always up to the task.

In the end, I chose the M3 due to better all around use and the full back seat area for my little one. Plus the Porsche dealer was 130 miles from my house and the BMW dealer is 30.

Jandrews · 10-11-2006, 08:25 PM

More helpful conversation.

And I agree, straight-line acceleration is over-rated. I have an early 911 with an RS spec motor, so I am also a big fan of tossable. I was really just curious about the straight-line acceleration to see if they were similar. Sounds like they are.

So, a few mentioned liabilities on the M3 are the brakes, "fragile" engine and less sporty suspension? These things would clearly manifest themselves almost exclusively on the track, so I can see where it would be an amazing commuter as Makaio suggested.

I'm just not hearing any real criticisms of the 996. I think the 993 is maybe my favorite 911 of all time, but since I have an early car with a good motor, I am not seeking that raw, connected feeling as much. I think I want a purpose built sports car that is track capable, street saavy and still somewhat refined. I love the looks of both cars, but I must say that at this point I am leaning toward the 996. Keep the opinions coming.

JA

Jandrews · 10-11-2006, 08:26 PM

More helpful conversation.

And I agree, straight-line acceleration is over-rated. I have an early 911 with an RS spec motor, so I am also a big fan of tossable. I was really just curious about the straight-line acceleration to see if they were similar. Sounds like they are.

So, a few mentioned liabilities on the M3 are the brakes, "fragile" engine and less sporty suspension? These things would clearly manifest themselves almost exclusively on the track, so I can see where it would be an amazing commuter as Makaio suggested.

I'm just not hearing any real criticisms of the 996. I think the 993 is maybe my favorite 911 of all time, but since I have an early car with a good motor, I am not seeking that raw, connected feeling as much. I think I want a purpose built sports car that is track capable, street saavy and still somewhat refined. I love the looks of both cars, but I must say that at this point I am leaning toward the 996. Keep the opinions coming.

JA