I have Ben's Shorties, or also known as Stingers. They're loud, but I'm getting used to them. Aside from that, the build quality is terrific, and at 2 lbs each, you can't beat the weight savings. They're also the most free-flowing set up you can get for the 911, maybe except megaphones. They really wake up the engine.

I perceived no loss in low end or mid range, except maybe a tad in top gear below about 2,500, which really isn't where a Porsche should be, IMO. :D

There sure is Thom.... though it is still loud, mostly due to the lack of room. It looks great, sounds amazing, and defiently won't be breaking any time soon....quality looks amazing.

I'm using B&B headers (1 3/4") can't compliment the muffler enough.... and though i think i already said it, it sounds better with time, and if i can ever get it warm enough to dis-colour, it'll only add to the look, as the headers are starting to...man i love that look.

For B&B headers its a dual center style exit...looks amazing!!!! its 2 seperate mufflers joined in the middle..... all around a great muffler.....and the price is hard to beat.

I am considering this setup or perhaps Phase9 for my 911SC track car to replace my Monty 2-in 1-out. I love the Monty but I don't really need a muffler any more.

Anyone have info on the relative merits of the two setups?

What exactly would I need besides the two stingers to install the M&K shorty setup on my car equipped with SSI heat exchangers? Is some sort of support between the stingers needed, attaching to the back of the engine? Would I need to cut holes in the fiberglass rear bumper or do they sit below the bumper?

You need the 4 bolts from your previous exhaust, and maybe new gaskets between the inlets and the SSIs. It's a 5-10 minute job depending on how fast you can tighten a nut.

They mount two ways - angled up or down. When angled down, you don't need to alter your valance (i.e. cut).

Phase 9, Coast mufflers, etc., are far more costly than Ben's.

^^^ Thanks very much for the info!

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know why people use a cross brace with Phase 9s and other megaphone-type setups? Are they longer and/or heavier than the M&K shorties and thus require support?

The others do weigh a good deal more than Ben's (at 1.5lbs each). With significant weight hanging off the headers I imagine you could eventually vibrate/fatigue some welds without a brace.

And I thought my car had eaten a chicken!

I have the 1 in 1 out on a Carrera and the mid to high note song is so smooth that it almost seems to be quieter then the stock muffler but I know that it isn't. It sounds so smooth that at first I wouldn't notice that it had reached redline. It was mesmerizing. :D

I have an MK Dual In Dual out Sport Muffler in a Targa with no sound material anywhere :). I don't have a radio and will never install one again. The sound is absolutly great. I have gotten many compliments from people on the street and an Officer of the law who pulled me over and to be honest I thought he was pulling me over because of the sound which was only part of the reason! :)

My car is far from quiet but it sounds like a racecar even thought it doesn'tt go like one :). Well it kinda does.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160016154.jpg

cool pic. i guess i can put up mine too ;)

BTW, great product and lots of happy guys
i guess congratulations are in order, ben :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160018926.jpg

Do you have the sport or GT3 style muffler?

Figured I'd chime in too. I have a 3.4 with SSIs and an M&K 2/1. Also have the stingers, although I have yet to find an opportunity to use them for more than a few minutes at a time (fun as hell and LOUD). Great, great setup.

Great sound, great build quality, Ben and his partner (Mark?) are good guys all around.

jwernquist - do you have any other pictures of this set-up?

I spoke to Ben yesterday and he seamed to indicate that his sport pipes are shorter than the ones in your picture. I kinda like the long pipes.

I can't decide between twin sport pipes and the GT3 version (close twin pipes). I have a '74 and was planning on fabricating an appropriate rear valence either way. Anyone have any photos of either a sport or GT3 set-up on an impact bumper car?

Thanks,
Don

Don

What pictures would you need? I can take from any angle you want!

Let me know
Jon

Okay, these photos have been a long time in coming as several people have asked about it, so I hastily snapped these on the way out today.

These are the prototype GT3 style mufflers that Ben and I designed. These are installed on a '74 Carrera with a 2.7RS engine. It's a 90% track car, and the only real street driving it sees is to/from the track, and certain, err, "test" or fun runs.

Apologies for the dirt and other less-than-garage-queen artifacts. It really is all purpose.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160066765.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160066780.jpg

The pipes are slightly off-center because my headers were at some point knocked slightly to the left. The pipes themselves are perfectly centered in the muffler. When/if I replace the headers, the pipes will be perfectly centered relative to the chassis and engine.

Also, I know the valence cutout is awfully crude. The original pipes were spaced farther apart, and we just cut out the remaining center section. It doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would. One day I'll bust out the fiberglass, but since it's a track car, this is fine for now.

More about some other fun stuff soon!

Jon,
Zoom back from the car a bit, and if you got it - a straight from the side shot and one of the rear.

I also just noticed that there's actually two different green cars (I thought these were the same car at first) Dave's car has longer pipes. Dave, was this an early M&K?

Thanks,
Don

Do you have a shot from the side? Ben tells me the exit pipes slope down a bit.

How does it sound? I think we probably have similar engines.


Thanks,
Don

A few more pictures

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160071803.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160071835.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160071871.jpg

Man, I wish Ben would make some of these for the 3.2 single-in, for those of us who still have to run a cat for emissions testing. I'd buy one in a heartbeat. I tried to get one custom made for several months earlier this year, but he could never get a car there to mock one up on.

Wavey:

Shipping is affordable enough (IMHO) to have Ben send you a muffler without the exit pipe(s). You could then attach the muffler to your actual car, mark the exact spot(s) where you would like the exit pipe(s) mounted and send it back to Ben for final fitment.

Ask me how I figured this out...doh!

Anyway, I have an M&K 1 in 2 out muffler coming my way that is basically like the one on jwernquist's car posted above for my 1987 Carrera 3.2 with stock heat exchangers and CAT.

I already "test fit" it and drove it up to the German Auto Fest a few weeks ago. The thing sounds menacing. It is VERY deep at idle and low RPM's (kinda like a really good V8) and it sounds like a 911 RSR at higher RPM's.

My neighbor (a car enthusiast) and son-in-law say that it is not too loud with the double exit, but it did set off a couple car alarms over the one weekend I drove it... It does not bother me in the least, however, because my car is basically used for spirited drives and I could care less about noise level or comfort. It is a heck of a lot quieter than a Harley.

I can't wait to get it back. I will post pictures in the next week or so.

Mike

as mike said his is being set exactly to his wishes we will then be able to get you one wavey next weekish for any duplicates..

pussy :D


i guess you can call it an 'early' version, but it was also done *exactly* to my request ;)

i wanted it to look just like the factory sport, but i wanted the pipes w/ a certain spread. in addition, keeping the pipes that long would look funny if they were skinny, but then the tubing that ben uses for the 2-out side exit exhausts would be too fat. so i asked ben to make the pipes' diameter right in between the two. slightly bigger than factory, but smaller than the 'bullhorn' style tubing. it took a bit longer for those tubes to come in, but it was worth it. :)

Thanks Mike! Ben suggested that and it sounds like that process worked for you. So, are you saying you drove it with the pipes tacked on, and now the welds are being finished? Love to see some pics when you get it back.


QUOTE]Originally posted by mb911 as mike said his is being set exactly to his wishes we will then be able to get you one wavey next weekish for any duplicates.. [/QUOTE]

That's great Ben! Just give me a call when you actually have something and we'll work out payment and shipping.

See my whimsical description earlier in this thread, and Mike's (Momo3.2), who's described it perfectly I think.

It is very aggressive. Not for the faint of heart. If you don't like getting attention, consider a quieter option. Consensus of everyone I've polled is that it is loud, and you hear it coming, but it's not obnoxious loud. Nowhere near as bad as a Harley. But it may set off some car alarms.

Honestly, the sound of this exhaust with this engine is one of the most glorious sounds I've ever heard. It gives me shivers it's so good. And on a track--good lord.

Depending on how stripped your car is, it may make it difficult to listen to the radio or have conversations. But since my car isn't set up for the street and I have no soundproofing or interior save an RS carpet kit, I pulled the stereo altogether. Don't need it; saves weight.

Also, it's very light. And it looks awesome too. And it won't rust or chip.

Also, although I wasn't able to effectively compare driving with the previous exhaust, my suspicion is that this muffler has helped free up the revs even more. The throttle response on this already very sharp MFI engine is ridiculous. In aggressive driving situations, you have to think fast when it comes to shifting.

In short, I see no reason to ever contemplate any other exhaust for the life of this car. It's perfect, for my purposes. If you want something more sedate, for street use, consider some of M&K's other options. You can't go wrong.

Wavey:

Nope, I gave Ben some measurements and had him complete a muffler based on that. Through no fault of Ben's (his finished product was PERFECTLY accurate) the pipes were off center by about 1". The muffler looked beautiful. It was just not perfectly centered and that measurement is critical with a center exit exhaust. Although I thought my measurements were spot on, they were not.

So, to answer your question, my experience was with a finished muffler.

I was able to send the muffler back to Ben with the actual location (relocation) of the exit pipes. So, things should be perfectly symmetrical now.

Mike

Carbon build up inside softens the ting sound a bit.
 

A film of carbon builds up on the inside of the muffler softening the note a bit.

Bringing this back to life....

I have one of the GT3 Style ones for my 3.4 with b&b headers. It is way way way too loud. I am almost embarrassed to start it up. Yes, I like loud motors.

What can I do to calm it down a little? I believe the two outlets are not "mixed" in the muffler. I believe it each tip only sees flow from one bank of cylinders. This makes capping off one of the outlets not an option.

Cheers

Jeff: Have you tried calling or e-mailing Ben? I'm sure he'll be able to help you with a solution.

http://www.mkexhaust.com/

Nope, not yet, just wanted to see what some had done if they thought it was too loud, besides selling it, which some did.

Cheers

Absolutely love my one in one out...I also have a cat by-pass...wife thinks it is too loud, I think it sounds like a lucious big block V-8http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...ys/rlwhore.gif[img]

Hey Jeff,

I don't have M&K (sorry Ben), but I did have a very loud exhaust problem with my free flowing B&B dual out. Having a cab and always worried about my neighbors, I added a couple of silencer end caps for about $10 each from ebay. Those silencers took the ID from 3.5 to about 1.5. A buddy of mine actually installed them and had to do some minor modifications (shorten the silencer pipe and make them slightly oval) to make them fit. They attach with a single bolt and can be removed anytime in seconds.

The result of this inexpensive solution did not make a dramatic difference, but they did take the edge off of my loud exhaust. I actually like an aggresive exhaust tone, but I didn't like the embarrassment of others thinking I had a hole in my muffler. I can drive in my neighborhood with a little more confidence and listen to the radio with my top down.

I was also worried about losing HP by restricting the flow of the exhaust with these silencers, but the strange thing is I actually felt like there was more HP with the silencers. Backpressure? I have no idea, but I am keeping them on for now.

Good luck in solving your loud exhaust and I think Ben can help with his silencers.

.. that design just does not work well . we do have inserts that jerry can get you. We have made huge advances with the newdesigns but unfortunatly we did not do anything with the B&B design setups as we built 4 of them or so and felt that design was better left alone. sorry! I wish I could help more

Back in the day... 1967.. 68 .. I had a Honda CB-250.. the "250 scrambler"... that came stock with straight pipes > upswept on the left side.. It would absolutely howl when shifting from 1st to 2nd.. the sweetest.. loudest howl ...

My M&K 2in/1 out reminds me of those glory days... sweet sound >> I love it

Thanks ben, I will drop jerry a line and see if he has th inserts!

cheers

I love mine.

Loud is good.

I've had my M&K 1 & 1 for 1 1/2 years, with the FAb-speed pre muff and SW chip. And I still LOVE IT. I get comments from non-Porsche people....Heck these aint even Car people, who like the sound.

Inside the car it has a nice tone, not at all intrusive (and mine is a Targa).
Tha answer to your question about regretting the purchase is......I'm Still Happy.
OH, and I'm not a kid with a need to be heard, let just day....my kids have kids.

KC

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1190250619.jpg

what setup would you guys recommend for my 1985 Row coupe?

Hey Jeff
Sent you a PM regarding your muffler

Cheers

Duane

The car is loud. Sometimes too loud for my taste. But it does sound good - truly like a race car. I have a 2 in 1 out with SSI headers. I used to have a 1 in 1 out with a Fabspeed cat bypass which was a bit more quiet, but not nearly as good sounding. I wish it could be a bit quieter, otherwise I'm extremely happy with it. The light weight, the build quality, the stock appearance, all great attributes.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1190275201.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1190275225.jpg

if purchasing now the gen4's are available and cut sound considerable.. Jeff to be honest your best soultion is ditch the B&B's and use georges euro headers and a 2 in 1 out muffler of your choice.. Thats what I suggest to all my customers

Very very impressed
 

Very very happy rthe sound is just amazing _ get great feedback and find the sound a major motivation to go for a drive late at night in the many tunnels here with the windows down...:eek: