Old Barn Story....Title Needed !

Conover · 09:12 PM

Grey Market Title Needed......The Old Barn Story With A Twist.... I was first introduced to this 1981 911sc ZZZ Euro Wide Body Turbo Look Porsche when I found it in a snow drift 11 years ago. After a number of incounters with this car and many plea's for kindness with it's owner he called and said I should come and get it. I arrived 15 months ago to pick up the car. We settled on what I believe is a fair price and, that the seller would not receive payment until I reveived clear title in State where I reside. We put a dealer plate on from one of his classic's he had for sale, called my insurance agent told him to bind it and I'd get the VIN # later, drove the car home parked it and began the wait for the title. After a few months I began to research the car....NTSB, EPA, Law Enforcement and than Customs........ BINGO.......Customs had the car coming into the US in 1986 but never excepted. IT'S not stolen, it's a "8 out" and a "8 in", all orginal , except for the speedo it's in mph. How do I legally title this car......and what should I know about it. Thanks

aftermath · aftermath's Garage

I think you would need to find out why it was never accepted. Either emissions or safety issue would cause that. However import restrictions only go so far back, I imported a 84 zzz turbo from the US to Canada, and the car origionated outside of the states. I had a customs broker take care of the paperwork, and I didnt get questioned about emissions or modifications at the border.

LakeCleElum · 10-05-2006, 11:58 AM

Start with customs and inquire what they would require to sign off on it.

Conover · 10-05-2006, 05:53 PM

Thanks, I will give customs a call and then work my way back through the call list.

Steve Marshall · 10-05-2006, 06:18 PM

Take the VIN down to your county tax accessor, or whoever handles titles in your county, and apply for a lost title. You might just get it. All they could do is say no, and tell you what it takes to get a proper title.

I would simly tell them the guy you bought it from didn't have the title and not all the rest. A bill of sale would probably be helpful.

Gearbox · 10-05-2006, 07:19 PM

Back in the 80's I imported a 911SC and it was considered a "Conforming" car. That means the Euro version, outside of lights and a few minor things that could be caught through normal vehicle inspection if not changed, was close enough to US specs to be imported without any hassels. This was usually noted on the car's glass (DOT marking) and a FMVSS compliance sticker on the driver's door. Non conforming cars require a Bonded shop to perform all the DOT conversions to US specs and subsequent inspection by DOT, very expensive. So when you say "Customs had the car coming into the US in 1986 but never excepted" I assume they were no exceptions because it was a conforming car? Unless if you meant "accepted", it could mean that the documentation was incorrect or lost. In either case, customs released your car and what ever the hold up was, appeared to had been resolved. I've never seen customs release anything if something was wrong. So I assume the original importer had titled the car and somehow the title got lost by the time you got the car. But didn't the seller have a title at one time? Just go to DMV in his state with the vin and have them see who had the last title. Then contact the last titled owner and see what's going on. If everything is correct, get a notarized letter form him saying the car was sold to you, DMV will issue another title to the last owner who will have to sign it over to you. It's a lot of work, but if you love the car..................Good luck.

BoxsterGT · 10-05-2006, 07:39 PM

There are some states like NH & Georgia that will accept a "bill of sale" as proof of ownership for an "old car" to be registered.

Once registered, it can be sold to anyone (meaning you) in a title state by using the registration paper as proof of ownership.

Its been done this way lots of times.

You can also contact Porsche to assist you with the ZZZ part of the VIN. They can assign or change this to a real number.

Some states like Mass could not accept the ZZZ into their vehicle database.

I have such a Porsche, with ZZZ stamped in the body near the gas tank and numbers showing on the decal that sticks to the door jamb as well as the tag next to the windshield.

Good luck.

Len

sithot · 10-06-2006, 06:12 AM

http://www.its-titles.com/

This is a good outifit I have used.

Best,

Tom

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Just a word of advice: if you are going to talk with US Customs or any government official about an undocumented vehicle in your possession, you might be wise to identify the problem is "theoretical" and not state that you have the car in your possession.

I used to know a guy who had one of the original IROC cars and his shop was staked out by a couple of plainclothes government guys watiting for him to touch public pavement with the car -- they were determined to sieze and crush it.

You'd think they'd have something better to do. But sometimes, they don't.

kycarguy 935 · 10-06-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by techweenie
Just a word of advice: if you are going to talk with US Customs or any government official about an undocumented vehicle in your possession, you might be wise to identify the problem is "theoretical" and not state that you have the car in your possession.

I used to know a guy who had one of the original IROC cars and his shop was staked out by a couple of plainclothes government guys watiting for him to touch public pavement with the car -- they were determined to sieze and crush it.

You'd think they'd have something better to do. But sometimes, they don't.

I had something similar happen in 1990 with a 1976 C3 that I bought from a guy in the service that brought the car over from Germany. I called EPA and DOT to make sure all the paperwork was in order before I bought it and one of the agencies wanted to come see the car and kept asking. I advised them I was considering buying the car and didn't have possession and that it was located at Edwards Air Force Base. Finally they found the entry dates in the computer and didn't bother me anymore. The car already had plates from his home state of Michigan so I wasn't sure what the big deal was. All was well in the end.

Gearbox · 10-06-2006, 11:18 AM

Isn't it nice that the US enforcement agencies always assume that you are guilty of something. I don't know about you, but I feel much safer

Just track back to the last owner and keep on peeling back the layers. Easiest way would be to call the DMV in the state you got the car from and see if it had ever been titled. Then you ask yourself, is the deal you got on the car worth the hassle? Especially with the number of 911SC's out there these days.