"Performance Tuning" Takes a Hit

[mysocal911]

A potential problem now for those others in the biz "tweaking" fuel & ignition maps.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a62244677/cobb-tuning-epa-2-point-9-million-dollar-fine-defeat-devices/

[jac1976]

I think this has more to do with emissions defeat software and hardware. They may call it “tuning,” but that is painting with a broad brush. The EPA has a hard on for the automotive industry and appears to ignore much larger and more serious environmental concerns. That said, I can’t imagine any changes (excepting catalytic converter delete) to any of our air cooled vehicles would warrant EPA action.

[AG81]

I deal with the EPA and they are as corrupt as every other Government agency. Mostly run by the guys who barely made it thru college and often have massive inferiority complex issues. Just my opinion....

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by jac1976

I think this has more to do with emissions defeat software and hardware. They may call it “tuning,” but that is painting with a broad brush. The EPA has a hard on for the automotive industry and appears to ignore much larger and more serious environmental concerns. That said, I can’t imagine any changes (excepting catalytic converter delete) to any of our air cooled vehicles would warrant EPA action.

Yeah I think for older vehicles this isn't going to be relevant aside from cat deletes, but the outlook for modern tuning could be significant. No more "off-road only" sales of track pipes, confirming all sold tunes maintain emissions requirements for all vehicles, not allowing personal tuning, etc.

It's a weird one. I'm extremely happy that modern engines are as efficient and clean as they are, but I happily run around with my cat-less and inefficient noise machine. Ultimately the modern engines vastly outnumber modified cars such that the modified ones have only a minimal impact (and really alleviates the pressure of individual deviations), and regulatory attention really should be somewhere other than the aftermarket.

[wildthing]

Meanwhile there are microplastics in the water...

Also how many people tune their cars compared to total cars on the road?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by mysocal911

A potential problem now for those others in the biz "tweaking" fuel & ignition maps.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a62244677/cobb-tuning-epa-2-point-9-million-dollar-fine-defeat-devices/

Cobb is actually the industry leader in this arena. I know multiple people in the company, and knew the founder. This is a process they've been engaged in for several years now. They've worked very closely with both the EPA and CARB to make all their legacy products compliant. And then, moving forward in that spirit of cooperation, they have developed and released a completely legal flex fuel system to replace the one they removed from the market.

I've long maintained that a clean tune is a powerful tune. People removing a cat or other compliance device in the search for 2-3 horsepower are the bottom feeders. You can builld a 400 or 500whp car and still be emissions legal. It just costs more.

20 years ago, using a slew of Cobb parts, I took a 165hp Subaru Ej251 and turned it into a 225hp WRX matching "monster". It was 50 states smog legal and there was literally nobody on the road with more power from the lowly Ej251. I still own the engine. Some day it may find it's way into my 914.

[Mark Salvetti]

If you read through the links, the point is made that most of these tuners were left alone for years. The contention is that the diesel mod industry became pretty brazen (the “rolling coal” phenomenon, plus heavy truck mods to defeat the urea injection systems) so EPA had to go after them. Millions of vehicles modified.

I think if they had not also gone after the sports tuners they could have been accused of arbitrary enforcement.


Mark

[mikesarge]

Originally Posted by AG81

I deal with the EPA and they are as corrupt as every other Government agency. Mostly run by the guys who barely made it thru college and often have massive inferiority complex issues. Just my opinion....

Take it to PARF

[stownsen914]

Agreed on keeping politics out of this forum, but which part of making a comment about perceived corruption in a government agency is politically-charged? Especially when said agency has decision making influence over automobiles and their performance.

[mikesarge]

Originally Posted by stownsen914

Agreed on keeping politics out of this forum, but which part of making a comment about perceived corruption in a government agency is politically-charged? Especially when said agency has decision making influence over automobiles and their performance.

The part about personal insults levied towards agency employees.

Believe me, I sue EPA (and bunch of other agencies) for a living, I'm not a big fan of a lot of their decision-making, but these kinds of baseless insults really have no place on a technical bulletin board for cars that don't even have the kind of engine computers at issue in this enforcement...

Why's it always the "law and order" crowd that manages to fill its diapers over the enforcement of the law?

Rules for thee but not for me!

does that help illuminate why this should be on PARF and not the 911 technical board?

[Matt Monson]

Oh geez…

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by Mark Salvetti

If you read through the links, the point is made that most of these tuners were left alone for years. The contention is that the diesel mod industry became pretty brazen (the “rolling coal” phenomenon, plus heavy truck mods to defeat the urea injection systems) so EPA had to go after them. Millions of vehicles modified.

I think if they had not also gone after the sports tuners they could have been accused of arbitrary enforcement.


Mark

Brodozers ruin everything once again.

[stownsen914]

Criticizing attacks (on unnamed people at a government agency) … by doing the same thing, seemingly aimed at people posting in this thread?

[mikesarge]

Originally Posted by stownsen914

Criticizing attacks (on unnamed people at a government agency) … by doing the same thing, seemingly aimed at people posting in this thread?

My point is that we’ve banished this kind of baseless reactionary jump-scare style boogeyman myth-making to PARF where it can fester away from those of us who are here despite its presence in the hobby, and merely trying to work on our cars.

Have a good one

[pmax]

Originally Posted by mysocal911

A potential problem now for those others in the biz "tweaking" fuel & ignition maps.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a62244677/cobb-tuning-epa-2-point-9-million-dollar-fine-defeat-devices/

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a40849184/inside-a-tuning-shop-when-the-epa-comes-knocking/






Another company ....


I would be surprised if this hasn't reached the Porsche world.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by mikesarge

My point is that we’ve banished this kind of baseless reactionary jump-scare style boogeyman myth-making to PARF where it can fester away from those of us who are here despite its presence in the hobby, and merely trying to work on our cars.

Have a good one

I hear you loud and clear.

But ... wouldn't you agree this issue to impactful to everyone here and especially those, to borrow your words, "merely trying to work on our cars" ?

Technically speaking then, what are your thoughts on the EPA requirements ? Seems like all performance chips and parts for that extra few HP fall clearly within its purview.

[pmax]

To extrapolate from the settlement, sounds like the CARB EO process will apply to all.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/cobb-tuning-products-llc-clean-air-act-settlement

[stownsen914]

It sounds like he was calling out some specific language in a post that he disagreed with, not the entire discussion. A bit ironic though.

[jac1976]

Originally Posted by pmax

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a40849184/inside-a-tuning-shop-when-the-epa-comes-knocking/






Another company ....


I would be surprised if this hasn't reached the Porsche world.

I think the first excerpt illustrates government overreach.

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by mikesarge

Take it to PARF

Let the moderators know how you see this. In the bad olden days, a concern such as this was appropriately handled out of the limelight. They can determine what is appropriate.