WEBER or PMO for a hot rod 3.0.?

[Erik Mckenna]

Why is one better than the other aside from it being said the PMOs are easier to tune and keep tuned are the PMO any better in performance?

Thanks!

[kucharskimb]

i have webers. i can't say i've been happy with them. most of the problems i experience--accel pumps, transition, idle circuit, float bowl sight gauge--are said to be corrected with the PMOs. if you give Richard your engine setup, he will set up the carbs to be pretty close out of the box for your application.

If i had the money, i would make the switch to PMOs.

[RSBob]

Every one I know who has PMO loves their superior engineering over the earlier style carbs. They cost more, but you get more.

[Brother]

PMO's are basically webers with 20+ years of improvements built in. They are the best that carbs can be.

[RoninLB]

my experience is that all 6 carbs of the PMOs are extremely ordinated.. meaning that the EGT deviation/power deviation is very low in the 40-70degF range. That range is in the high end FI range.

personally PMOs are a carb dream come true.

[herman maire]

Forget all that webber and pmo stuff and buy a good used MFI system and get that tuned for your 3.0..... Thats what I want to do anyway.

[Facey]

EFI or MFI just doesn't have the same fuel atomization as carbs.

i know u can put in the "perfect" amount and stuff.... but carbs still offer all out perforamance gains that just can't be had with injection.... unless maye your talking FSI, direct port... or if u care a whole lot about reliability.

then theres the free- reving nature and raw sounds that carbs add.

[81 911 SC]

I have PMO's on a stock SC motor and can attest to the performance gain. Gas mileage is pretty poor but there is significant power gains with SSI and freeflow exhaust and PMO's.

[}{arlequin]

i've been running webers since april and you couldn't pay me to switch to pmo's... some things don't get reported but i've heard complaints of pmo's leaking. they may be easier to tune, but i just had mine set once and haven't bothered w/ it since. sure, if i park it outside overnight when it's cold it will require 5-6 cranks before it fires, but so what?

i don't have mine set for the ULTIMATE hp. they're set to work in most conditions. am i leaving 3hp somewhere? prolly... but it's worry free and does what i ask of it.

all this 'ease of setup' talk... i wonder who actually does that all the time? maybe if you go from sea level to denver on a weekly basis, or are racing and need every single hp out of the setup, but that means you know what you're doing, can work on either brand, and can swap parts just b/c the weather changed. i think most people don't do that.

[gumba]

I've heard from a few tuners that PMO's have their own set of quirks. I don't think they would provide any more power than Webers, or be easier to tune. I used 46mm Webers on my 2.8 and now on my 3.4.

The only down side to the 46mm Webers are parts are becoming increasing harder to find. I'm having a set of secondary venturies made (due to a carb fire) and scrounging around for #50 pump jet. These are NLA from PMO or anyone else as far as I can tell. I don't know how the 40mm parts are.

Herman: MFI is great it you can find someone who REALLY knows how to set it up. Cause it's miserable if not set up right.

'73S coupe w/mfi
'75 Carrera RS (look) 3.4 twin plug, 46mm Webers

[dd74]

When I bought my rebuilt 2.7 last November, it came with Webers. Along with city driving, I've also done several track events, and the carbs have been perfect. I've given them no special attention - actually no attention at all. Just jet and forget.

PMOs - I don't see the value when a nice set of Webers can perform as well. I really don't see the value when one pays almost $2K more for PMOs than a used set of Webers. But to each their own:

One very small observation is that PMOs supposedly won't run well with solid motor mounts. Evidentially, the solid motor mounts rattle the PMOs internals loose, or some such claim. I've run solid motor mounts as long as I've had my Webers, and haven't had a single problem.

[herman maire]

A little off topic but pretty cool anyway
BTW Mitch Rossi's car still has MFI
http://www.europeancarweb.com/porsche/0403ec_lemans01/

[NY65912]

I'm running PMOs on my little hot rod 3.0. I'm using 46mm carbs with a Racor filter/water seperator, which is paramount in using carbs.

The engine specs are 3.0 with JE 10.00 to 1 CR, DE 40 cams with racing springs and Ti retainers, ARP bolts on stock rods, mildly ported heads, SSI's, Monty 2 in 2 out muffler.

On the dyno she put out 255 hp to the rear wheels with 15% loss is about 300 hp at the crank. Using 93 octane gas.

Car weighs in at 2460 lbs.......for now.

Besides fantastic responsiveness and power the sound is sooo great!

I say PMO's!!!!!

[}{arlequin]

Originally posted by NY65912
I'm running PMOs on my little hot rod 3.0. I'm using 46mm carbs with a Racor filter/water seperator, which is paramount in using carbs.

The engine specs are 3.0 with JE 10.00 to 1 CR, DE 40 cams with racing springs and Ti retainers, ARP bolts on stock rods, mildly ported heads, SSI's, Monty 2 in 2 out muffler.

On the dyno she put out 255 hp to the rear wheels with 15% loss is about 300 hp at the crank. Using 93 octane gas.

Car weighs in at 2460 lbs.......for now.

Besides fantastic responsiveness and power the sound is sooo great!

I say PMO's!!!!!

does this mean that you would make LESS power w/ webers?
or is this solely attributed to the compression/piston/cam combo?

[NY65912]

I did not mean to suggest that it's all about the PMO's making all the power. I was trying to say that I feel that carbs are the cat's a$$.

I am sure Webers if properly set up would make equal power.

I'ts just that the PMO's are a better designed Weber.

I can tell you that setting up the PMO's was easier than setting up Webers that I have owned. It seem that the Webers would "fall out of adjustment" more often.

I'm just a fan of carbs!

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[}{arlequin]

Originally posted by NY65912


I'm just a fan of carbs!

me too! i only sat once in someone's car w/ carbs at full song, and i just knew it was only a matter of time before i put them on my car.

[dd74]

Originally posted by NY65912

I'm just a fan of carbs!

Me three.

I'll say this in defense of PMOs: when setup, dyno time and all that is considered, I bet they're cheaper than (most) EFI systems.

[911pcars]

"EFI or MFI just doesn't have the same fuel atomization as carbs.
"

Spoken like a true believer. You can take the above statement both ways.

Sherwood

[JP911]

I recently faced the same choice of PMO vs. Weber. For me it came down to the fact that used carbs would be an unknown quantity and the money saved would be negligible. I went with the PMOs and they are fantastic. The kit comes with everything you need for the install. This has been my first experience with carbs, so it's hard for me to compare with Webers, but I'm a happy customer.

[Jeff Alton]

Sherwood, very good point. LOL

Not sure why he thinks a carb has superior atomization..... "all out perforamance gains that just can't be had with injection.... "

I like carbs, they look right and sound right and you can tune with tools. I like them. But.........

Cheers