Looking at '79 930 tomorrow and I have a few questions...

This is a '79 930 with a steel slant nose conversion and rear side vents. It has 71K miles and the owner says it's near mint condition. He just had a leak-down test and everything checked out fine. The only mechanical problem is that the car needs a 2nd gear synchro. He's asking $22,500.

My questions are:
1. What does insurance run on a '79 930? I know there's a lot of variables that go into that, but can someone tell me their experiences? My State Farm agent quoted my $68/mo on an '80 SC and $97/mo on an '86 944 Turbo for full coverage.

2. What will the 2nd gear synchro cost. He said he thought he had a quote of $1500. That's about what I was quoted for a 1st gear synchro on the '81 SC I sold, so that sounded reasonable. Does this sound about right?

3. Asking price seems OK to me based on the October Excellence Market Update. Any thoughts?

Anything else I should look for? I forgot to ask about the exhaust system, but I'll check that out when I look at the car tomorrow. I would have the car checked out by a mechanic before buying it, but would appreciate any suggestions that might sway me before I got to that point!

Thanks!
Lee

Lee,

I have my insurance through Leland West Insurance - about $250 per year for a 77 carrera 3 (limited yearly milage though-5,000 I think), so you might want to check those people out. I do not know to much about the other stuff other than you should get that car checked out by a quality shop.
Good luck.

Matt
www.lelandwest.com

Hi Lee. I would get the thing into second and stand on it. When the boost comes on you won't care about how much the insurance is going to cost . These things feel pretty flat until you wind them up, but nothing is as much fun.
david 89 turbo cab

[This message has been edited by 5axis (edited 08-06-2000).]

Why doesn't he get the 2 synchro fixed and sell it as true mint condition for $1500.00 more?

Things like that tend to make me wonder....

Good luck and don't let yourself get carried away with the thrill. Be careful and get it checked out by a P mech.

s

The second gear thing sounds a little too common. Like the guy eairler said, get the thing in second and wind it up in all gears. look for smoke out of the exhaust. also the life of the 930 engine,Maybe 60k max. So, you might be looking at a rebuild, leakdown tells you the condition of the top end. These 930 motors make a lot heat and are hard on the rod bearings and outher parts.
Maybe bargin with him on the price say 20k, pick the car apart.Also I pay $450 a year for full coverage in SO Cal.
Good luck
DRD
85 Carrera

Lee,

First, the owner needs to provide receipts for the maintenance history of the car!

This car could be on the verge of needing major repairs, maybe in the same price range as the asking price of the car ... not just a 2nd gear synchro, but a complete rebuild of the transaxle and engine, regardless of what the guy says about 'mint' condition!!! After all, he is trying to get rid of it.

Take it out on an isolated two lane highway, preferrably in some hilly terrain. Wind it up in 2nd gear, or first if necessary, but hold it at 6000-6500 rpm for 15 seconds or more, then, if possible on a downgrade, let it wind down off throttle for 30 seconds or more ... then goose it again for another 10-15 seconds, watching carefully in the rearview mirror for a big smoke cloud ... if you see smoke in any significant quantity, I suggest you keep looking for another car ... and suggest to the owner that he find another descriptive phrase, something a little more accurate, like 'TIRED, NEEDS MAJOR DRIVETRAIN OVERHAUL!!!'

If you don't already have a copy, get Bruce Anderson's 'Porsche 911 Performance Handbook' ... and read up on the engine evolution and rebuild fundamentals! There is also a good chapter on buying a used car. Good luck!

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Lee,

Warren touched on most of the important parts but let me add a couple more. Let someone you know drive the turbo with the owner (friend, brother etc.) and YOU drive behind the car and watch. Look at the exhaust (especially with the throttle closed going downhill, which will show oil sucked past the ex valve guides), suspension, wheels and such. You can tell lots about the car from the outside and you are not concentrating on driving something new at this time.

Very important is past history, and get receipts. No receipts can mean they did not do the work or they are hiding something, and neither is good. It also documents total mileage.

If he says that 2nd gear syncro will cost $1500, then offer him a bit less for the car and ask him to agree that if the repair runs more than 10% over the $1500 that he will pay the difference. If he says no, then there is something he is not telling you about.

Factor in the cost of a O/H turbo if he cannot show receipts within the last 15k miles of one being installed or overhauled. Let him drive it first, and then watch how he shuts the car down.

On a turbo motor you should let the car idle for a minute after driving it to let the turbine spool down before shutting the motor down. Not doing so lets the turbine spin down without ANY oil pressure and you are then looking at a new or O/H turbo lots sooner than needed.

If you are willing to get your hands dirty, (or have your mechanic do it and let you watch) take the intake hose off of the turbo inlet and stick your fingers inside and grasp the shaft where the turbine impeller is. Try to wiggle it up and down. A bit of play is acceptable, more than a RCH means that the bearings are not in good shape (see above) and its time to overhaul it before it lets go out on the road somewhere. This little bit of spinning metal is going at 30-100,000 RPM and you want the bearings to keep it in place.

Its not that expensive to O/H (if you do it yourself) but if its loose you have another point to haggle on the price. Also look at the blades on the turbo impeller... nicks mean that the air filter system has been letting debris inside... which then gets boosted to your motor... not good.

I have had turbos last 30-40k miles but you have to treat them right. They are a joy in the mountains when everyone else is gasping... you are still hauling a**...

Good luck,

JoeA

This is certainly a beautiful car! I'm not really a big slant-nose fan, but in white it really looks great. The BBS wheels with white centers really worked well too.

The sad thing is that the owner knows absolutely nothing about Porsches at all! I tried to hide my reactions to questions like, "Does Porsche still make a turbo?" and "I know my car is a 930... how is that different from a 911 turbo?" ARRRGGHHH!!!!

Cosmetically the car was excellent. The only thing that really stood out was some minor cracking in the paint where the fenders meet the crossmember in the engine bay. I'm assuming there was some welding here involved with the conversion to 930S bodywork. It was minor and the conversion was done years ago, so I would expect things to hold.

I didn't notice any smoke while driving the car, but will certainly have it checked by an independent mechanic before any money changes hand. The transmission did have a slight grind going into second on a quick up shift, but seemed fine on a downshift(?). 1st gear synchros were fine. This was the first 911 Turbo I've driven and now understand about how serious the turbo lag really is. Once wound up though, the acceleration was motorcycle fast. I couldn't push it much due to traffic, but at 95 mph it was still gaining speed at an amazing rate.

I'm going to talk to the mechanic who's worked on it. After that I'll go through the records and then talk price. I got the feeling that $20K would buy it, but didn't really talk about it that much with him. I didn't want to seem too anxious. He did say he paid $29K two years ago and has only put a few thousand miles on the car so I'd be shocked if he were much more flexible on price.

Lee, I'd be real leary of the cars past in regards to any accidents it might have been involved in. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would take a nice 930 and slap a slant nose conversion on it. Maybe a '74T or something but why a perfectly good (and expensive) 930. It just dosen't sound right to me. And it seems that often when I see cars for sale that have upgrades in styling it is a result of some sort of accident. Of course this isn't always the case and it may not be here. I would just check real hard and run a Carfax report on it.
Good luck, I know you've been looking for a while now,

------------------
Leland Pate

___79 SC Targa

Unfortunately, Carfax only works on '81 and newer cars. However, I do ever so highly recommend Carfax having found three cars with problems recently while buying a used car!

I know what you mean about the modifying a perfectly good car. Who knows? A dented fender may have been the catalyst that resulted in the conversion. I've already talked to a local shop about going over the car if I get to that point. Plus, I hope to try to track down the previous owner(s).

If I look at the car again I'll try to remember to take the digital camera along so I can post some pics. It's really a sharp car!

A car like the one you are describing is a total gamble, and the price reflects that. I would assume no maintenance history and that an accident spawned the conversion (worst case scenario). Is the car still attractive at that price? If so go for it! Obviously you should have a mechanic AND a body shop go over it - money well spent.

Turns out that there are NO RECORDS for this car at all! The current owner's story is that he bought it from a friend. The friend had bought it for his wife who never drove it because it was hard to drive.

Yep, this one is a crap-shoot. I certainly appreciate all of the advice. He's going to have to sell it for a bargain price with no history. We'll see what happens. One of the local shops has checked it out, but the mechanic is sick right now, so I'm not able to get hold of him. Once I talk to him, I'll have a better feel for the car.

Meanwhile, a '78 SC with 70K miles in "showroom" condition has just come on the market and I'll see it this Friday. Maybe I'll be Porsche owner once again before long!

Thanks again for all the great advice!

Lee - it seems you may be suffering from "Porsche Mania/Withdrawl". You're all over the place - old cars, new cars, turbos, SCs. Do yourself a favor and spend some time deciding what you really want in a 911 and how you will use it. 930's and early 911s couldn't be more different. When you decide then focus on the dream and find it! It is out there!

Funny thing is... I'm probably too flexible! You're right. I've looked at a '75 Carrera and all the way up to the '87 911 I bought (but turned down due to mechanical problems) on ebay. I'm even considering 944s!

I guess what it boils down to is that I'm looking for a fair deal on a nice car. I feel that the car will dictate how I use it! My interests range from autocrossing and track events, to top-side concourse. If the 930 works out, I will probably do a few track events, but not autocross. If the "showroom" SC works out, it would probably be more of a garage queen/Sunday driver. I'm thinking 944 for a near dedicated autocross/track car.

Really what I need is two toy cars. One to baby and one to beat on! Until I get a bigger garage I'll always be torn. I've been Porscheless since March of last year so I am getting a little desperate. I sold my 911 when we moved from Atlanta to Phoenix. Unfortunately, I've just have a hard time finding the right car.

Lee
I noticed you live in Phoenix, your profile. There are some well known shops there. Check with Todd Zuccone who does a lot of upgrade work on turbos. Also, the guys at www.imagineauto.com are extremely helpful when it comes to turbos. That is their specialty. In fact the owner, Stephen, modified his 79 turbo to the slant nose look because he likes it and he can do that. It is sometimes a preference. I agree with all previous posts, but also if you are still interested check it out.
John