69T 901 Transmission Problem

[Urban 911]

I have a 901 five-speed 69T. I believe that it is the original transmission and the car probably hasn't been moved since 2001. I can’t get the clutch to disengage to change gears when it is running. I can move though all the gears when it is not running except for first. I’ve never had a problem with a manual transmission before so I guess I’m lucky but, on the other hand, I’m not even sure I’m making any sense. Thanks!

[john walker's workshop]

the disc is stuck to either the flywheel or pressure plate. warm it up, so it starts easily, shut it off, put it in 1st, keep the clutch to the floor, crank the key and go light on the gas so you get rolling, then go on and off the gas to break it loose. clutch to the floor at all times.

[Urban 911]

Thank you John.

I had considered that clutch disc was stuck to the flywheel but I had never heard of it happening and I couldn't find a thread about it.

One fly in the ointment. I can't move into first gear when the car is not running. I can try using reverse by I am am wondering if it is related to being stuck or another problem. All others will let me in when the car isn't running.

[Grady Clay]

I agree with John, the disc is stuck to either the flywheel or pressure plate.

I would alter the procedure only slightly:
Put the transmission in neutral.
Start and warm it up, so it starts easily,
Shut it off,
Put it in 2nd, keep the clutch to the floor.
Crank the key and go light on the gas so you get rolling.
Then go on and off the gas to break it loose, clutch to the floor at all times.

My reasoning is that the input shaft 1st gear position is not particularly strong. This process is somewhat stressful to the transmission. This lessens the risk of a problem.

If the 911 is parked where it won’t conveniently start and run in 2nd, use first and reverse to get the car headed slightly downhill before starting and proceeding in 2nd gear.

If it won't go into a gear, let the car roll a little in neutral - forward or back, it doesn't matter.

Never try and change gears while the engine is running and the clutch won’t release. This will damage the syncros, engagement dogs and sliding sleeves.

Be gentle with the engine. This is more difficult on it than starting and break-in for a freshly rebuilt engine. Keep the revs low and only start for short periods initially. A lot has been discussed about this on Pelican and other.

Check your brake fluid. You don’t want a master cylinder failure to have you with no brakes!

Best,
Grady

[Urban 911]

Thank you John and Grady.

I'll try it tomorrow. I'll let you know if I wind up on someone’s lawn.

[Cordts]

check the pivot.. go under the car and see if the clutch fork can be moved side to side by hand.. if so,, the fork pivot is broken..

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Cordts
check the pivot.. go under the car and see if the clutch fork can be moved side to side by hand.. if so,, the fork pivot is broken..

I think he is getting good pedal pressure, just no release. I 2nd the coasting down hill to ease the starting of the engine in gear. This is hell on an engine. Better yet would be to push start the car in gear going downhill. No chance of missing the correct ground speed, engine RPM when pulling in gear. But coasting downhill with the engine idling and your hand pushing gently on the lever towards 2nd, it will slide right in when your speeds match. If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't listen to my drivel. You might break ssomething lie Grady says (and he's smarter than I am)

[A Quiet Boom]

Originally posted by milt
I think he is getting good pedal pressure, just no release. I 2nd the coasting down hill to ease the starting of the engine in gear. This is hell on an engine. Better yet would be to push start the car in gear going downhill. No chance of missing the correct ground speed, engine RPM when pulling in gear. But coasting downhill with the engine idling and your hand pushing gently on the lever towards 2nd, it will slide right in when your speeds match. If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't listen to my drivel. You might break ssomething lie Grady says (and he's smarter than I am)

I've had to do this on several cars including the P-car when I've had a broken clutch cable, it's a hoot shifting without a clutch! Carefully raise the RPM then gently pull the car into gear with it rolling, when the speeds match it will slip right in and you can do the procedure Grady and JW described. Probably better just to start the engine in second after warming it up though, the starter is strong enough and it's easier on the trans.

I don't do it with the P-car but nearly every other manual I drive I often shift without a clutch. I do this as practice for matching revs when heel toe driving. What the hey, wife's Cavalier is still under warranty (just don't let her know I said that)

[Grady Clay]

Milt my friend,

No No No, you mis-understood.

You can’t have a 911 rolling and push the shifter into gear. That will almost immediately damage something. I think what you are referring to is being able to “bump start” a 911 by letting it roll in gear with the clutch released and then suddenly engaging the clutch. This only works with a properly operating clutch.

In this situation the clutch pedal is depressed but the clutch isn’t released. From the description, John, my and others impression is the disc is stuck to the flywheel. Only if that is the case will possibly this technique work. No guarantees. There is also the possibility of damage as I indicated above. In spite of that, I think this is a reasonably worthwhile attempt. I have seen it work.

If the pivot were broken, he wouldn't have any clutch "feel." The pedal would be at the floor with no resistance.

As I said above, shifting without releasing the clutch (or attempting to put it into gear without the clutch fully disengaged) will probably result in damage.

Urban, if you have ANY question about the procedure or risk of damage, ask before you do anything.

Best,
Grady