911 C1 - 3.6 engine. Exhaust/Heat questions???

Yetis · 10-09-2006, 11:04 AM

Hello,
I'm building up my new project - a MY 87C1 with a 993 3.6 engine. So I can either use the stock 993 heat exchanger but what about the the SSI solution offered here at Pelican?

SSI Heat Exchanger Set (pair), 911 with 3.6L Transplant Motor $1070.00 SSI-911-36L

Is that the right set and brings optimum power and torque? How is the fitment - any problems? Is the ID correct for the engine? Or are there other systems around that are even "better"?

Thanks for any help.

Yetis

btw: yes I want heat - so no racing headers...

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

SSIs are usually for 3.0 and smaller motors....unless they started making a newer model?

jevvy · 10-09-2006, 12:19 PM

There are a few options these days for the 3.6 transplants, just depends on things like if you have 993 HE's, 993 heat tube etc etc.

Do a search as there have been a few threads recently that detail each of the options, from what I remember SSI's were deemed a tad narrow for a 3.6 on full song.

Good luck - you will love the 3.6!

Yetis · 10-09-2006, 12:40 PM

Well I could use the stock 993 heat exchangers that are on the 993 engine. But since I will use a catalytic converter I will use a muffler where the system is build in (like the 930). The exhaust will be in the '73 RSR look with 3 exits.
So since I will use a custom made muffler I want to use a optimum muffler/heat exchang system.

So if the SSI are too small in the ID - what is the set listed above used for??

What what you recommend in this specification?

Thanks a lot.

jevvy · 10-09-2006, 12:52 PM

Why do you need the CAT, if you really need the CAT then you can either use the 993 CAT with the 993 HE's but this will not leave you much room for the actual muffler. The other option is to use 3.2 or 964 HE's that exit at the front then locate the CAT alongside the engine with a standard muffler at the back - you may run into fitmet issues with this option depending on whether you use the old or new rear beam(single or multiple bottom pulleys dictate this)

Sorry if this isnt terribly clear but its a bit of black hole of options ocne you get into it especially if you need to retain the CAT.

FWIW my custom muffler made by Steve Timmins which bolts staright onto the 993 HE's has a hole for the oxygen sensor and my MOT man thought it was a CAT - the car also walked through the emmissions by a very large margin.

SLO-BOB · 10-09-2006, 12:54 PM

I wouldn't necessarily say the SSIs are too small for your 3.6. It appears they have a model made for the 3.6 motor that most (Including me until I looked up the part # you posted) are unaware of. I would call Pelican and ask someone for technical assistance regarding the 3.6 SSIs to find out if it's a new 3.6 model only, or a generic SSI adapted to fit a 3.6. If it's the latter, I would pass. I would be surprised if a company like SSI would do something that badly.

Yetis · 10-09-2006, 01:42 PM

So the ID of the SSI for a 3.2 or 3.0 engine is definately smaller. What ID does require a header/w-heat for the 3.6? If it is just an "old" SSI model apapted for the 3.6 - that would be a no go? Are there other companys who offer a better solution compared to the stock 993 one?
Thanks Yetis

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

SSI makes one size.....unless they have a new model....like I said before.....

"I" use 993 HEs that have been reconfigured to fit my 964 motor.....LOT's cheaper.

They resemble the old style equal length HEs prior to smog requirements...SSI made them in Stainless....Porsche did them in mild steel which rusts.....993 ones look to be the better deal...

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Believe me SSI's are too small for max performance.

Stock 993 w/ stock cat and stock heat is cheapest but installing a muffler after the cat is a real trial on a 911. There just isn't much room after the cat and w/i the confines of the body to fit one.

I have stock on my 3.6 and 1 3/4" B&B on my 3.8, heat is 964, muffler is Flowmaster, no cat though

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Installing a cat CAN be done with 993 HEs.....send me ......a BILLION dollars and I'll post pics on how I did it......or you can just search and find my previous posts with pics.....

sus911 · sus911's Garage

Yetis, a little off topic, but if you decide to sell your 993 HE's , and they are the "Bischoff" style, I would be interested in buying them.
Good luck.

Yetis · 10-09-2006, 02:31 PM

Ok,
so the SSI for the transplant 3.6 engine does not have the right ID. If you put them in you get more torque but less HP?
How is the heat effeciency with the b&b? Just a slight warm breeze? Well I need a good working unit.

Mikez - I would pay the billion

.
I did some search before but I found only one thread for SSI with 3.6 engine. Am I wrong?

So I just use the stock 993 headers and use a costom muffler. I talked to a company who would produce one with integrated cat. Should like soething like this...

I', building a '73 RS replic on a My 87 C1. That is the reaon for the muffler style

Hope that this would be a good solution.

Yetis · 10-09-2006, 02:36 PM

@sus911
I will let you know just in case...
Still some work left till I go to the HE issue

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

so the SSI for the transplant 3.6 engine does not have the right ID. If you put them in you get more torque but less HP?

No, for the engine it is similar to a runner trying to do a marathon while breathing through a straw.

Mike stuck a cat on the end of his single out exhaust, IMO most people wouldn't want to do it that way.

Steve Weiner did a slick install w/ 993 headers and a (I think?) Monty muffler in a 911

Still no cat though

DW SD · 10-09-2006, 02:43 PM

Guys,
I spoke with the SSI owner some time back, maybe three months ago. He had zero interest in making an SSI product geared for new, larger displacement and higher HP engines. He said his products would add to pumping losses for engines over about 250 to 275 crank HP. The fact that this product is coming out from SSI is PURE MYTH!

Your 3.6 should have more HP than this amount. I used the factory HEs + an M&K muffler w/o cat(s) though. The results are very satisfying, though.
Email Ben at mkexhaust.com and I bet he may be able to do something for you. He has the 3.6 fixture jig from which to make mufflers like mine. Squeezing cats in would be tough, but if you crossed the muffler inlets over each other, you could probably fit some small kits in there.

DW SD · 10-09-2006, 02:44 PM

Mine's pretty similar to Steve Weiner's, I guess.

Doug

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

There you go, an off the shelf solution. Still no cats though

DW SD · 10-09-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
There you go, an off the shelf solution. Still no cats though

Yep, it is now off the shelf.

Ben and I worked to get this to fit right and then he built the final one. In the case of something custom (like mine was) he will send the parts out and you can tack together so he can do the final welding.

We did this in my case, so I could mount the outlets exactly where I wanted them and to ensure the muffler can was in the right place.

Fitting cats would be tough. I wonder if he could build them into the guts of the muffler? Or split the can into parts and fit the cats and mufflers into the same form factor as this muffler?

Doug

Yetis · 10-09-2006, 03:02 PM

Doug,
your car look awesome!!! Well I'm a bit away from this

So that could be a really nice solution. I wil talk to M&K and ask if it is possible to fit a cat in this case. Well I want to use one.

jevvy · 10-10-2006, 12:22 AM

Mine is pretty much identical to Dougs except its built around a Magnaflow x-over box with twin outlets and resonator tips.

It fits with the 993 heat tube and a bent 993 rear beam which when I was putting things together was one of my main requirements. I have heard a few M&K's since and when I save some pennies I will porbably take one of those instead as they sound a bit nicer.

Good luck with whatever you do