Hey thanks guys - wow, what a lot of responses - thanks! It does seem that while there is no definative answer, and some exceptions, the preponderance of evidence indicates that there less risk (and only an upside) to buying a car that has a known top-end rebuild performed (assuming of course the shop is reputable etc).

The car I drove yesterday had a rebuild done for 8k. It also had a K&N air filter and I could tell that the engine was a really, really free-revving and happy to rev, more so than other similar G-50/3.2s. Records were available, and they had also done some sort of reinforment to the G-50 tranny a while back too. So I think I'm leaning in that direction moreso than the semi-garage queen with no rebuild costing 10k more.

Thanks again! Marvin.

Just kidding, unless I could have an L88.

I was personally involved with the rebuild of an 89 and 87 3.2's that both had significant guide wear. One had 50k and the other 100k miles. Since these engines were being enlarged, a valve guide job was only natural. Since then, my car can run all season with adding no oil, where it would burn a quart every4-500 miles and easily 1-2 over a track weekend. Still, my car had no signs of performance loss. I'm not sure how bad it has to get before you actually start seeing an issue with drivability or if can cause any other major problems. If not, you could just keep adding oil and drive it.

I might add that the knowledge that your engine is not burning the very substance that gives it life is reassuring.:D

Compared to most other cars 20+ years old, the 911 is probably less prone to problems. And as you say, not much point in posting about everything that work like a charm, so naturally most post address those problems that do turn up.

Go ahead - get one for yourself. There is no substitute! ;)

"I'm also planning to get an 83-87 Porsche."

83 is the last of the SC 84-86 is the 3.2 with 915 tranny and 87' is the first year of the G-50. Sounds like you are all over the map. 78-89 share the same basic body style and can all be made to run circles around modern cars.

I don't think they are prone to having problems and it is exactly these types of threads that malign the absolutely stellar reputation these cars deserve.

A Porsche 911 is a high performance daily driver you can:

take to the track
autocross
long distance cross country drive
work on yourself
admire for the rest of your life
etc.

Try that with any other brand.

I didn't see this thread until now. Lots of good points here, and all over the field. So, I might as well throw my .02 in.

I recently bought a very high mileage car. I didn't get a good a deal as 8K, but that's not the norm, far from it. As pointed out, prices will go easily over 20K. I paid 11K and got some good assets to work with, namely a brand new distributor, new clutch job with the upgrade, and a bit more like brand new tires.

At this point, it has to be pointed out that there is more to a car than the engine. A 99 point car is nice to have even with a dead motor. Paint and the like is expensive.

All that having been said and considered, I got complete records for the car. I studied the records and noticed a recommendation for valve work at just over 110K miles. Maybe it should have been done before that. But, nothing was done, ever. The car came to me with 235,000 miles!!

Nothing done. Now, to be sure, it needs some work. It blows smoke on start up, uses oil and has a couple of "cold" cylinders. I bought the car with the expectation of doing the necessary work, whatever that turns out to be.

So, I'll make my conclusion about the cars, which won't work for many, especially the anal. The cars are stout and will survive many years with good to excellent care. They will even run beyond when they shouldn't and need repair badly.

It's nice to have a show toy, I've had a dozen or so. I'm getting tired of waxing the bottom sides of cars at my age of 61. I'm also starting to view life as finite and care a little less about what's going down around me. The prospective purchaser of any used car needs to do a little soul searching to see where this all fits in your deal.

A thought on this business of buying the perfect car. On the Net, we hear it all and quickly. The guy that got rear ended on his way to work, the guy who just got his car out of the paint shop and assembled to drive across country only to hit a massive boulder in the night virtually totaling the car. There's more. You know there is.

You go 'round once an some get short changed in so many different ways. I can't be bothered any more with oil or smoke. If it blows up, c'est la vie.

It had it's chance yesterday redlining many times and hitting 130 at one point. Buy what your heart tells you to buy if you're buying a 911 to play with. I've already had 11K worth of fun in this ol' Ragamuffin. Seriously. You don't buy this stuff at an amusement park or by playing some video crap.

If I had to give advice, I'd say get the car with the most money spent by the last owner. I got some of that, just didn't get the valve job. ;).

since valve guides are the main question here. how much is a valve guide job on a 1986 3.2, and is that considered a top end job? i just added a quart after my first 1k miles of owning the car. starts like a champ and no smoke at all.

Good points. For the record my bimmer 325e BMW from 86 has
250k on it, and it blows some white smoke on startup, but runs
fine otherwise.

BTW how long is a top-end suppossed to last. I know of one 911
for sale that has 204k miles on it, top-end done at 90k miles, and
its still going strong..

Milt;

I am right with you philosophically speaking on so many points.

hi8ha:

My 87 Carrera has 165,xxx miles on it with no work on the engine or trans. I am confident that it will go to 250,xxx miles before needing anything major. These cars are the very definition of stout IMHO.

Mike

That would depend a lot on many variables, the worst being "while I'm in there." ;)

Labor on heads runs a bit less than a grand with most of the parts unless you need a bunch of valves. This is the outside labor. A new set of pistons, cylinders, rings, etc is at least 3K. so if yours are in spec, you can leave them. Labor to R&R an engine and do a top end job can be as little as a grand, but don't count on too many shops being to come in at that fugure.

The only way to do something like this for less than a mortgage, is with your time and tools.

I have a 3.2L which will need a top end some day. It has ~125K-ish on the clock. A bunch of my friends also have 3.2L's

It's luck of the draw as to "when", but let me put it this way. Mods aside, the Carrera is a $20K car. You either buy one for $20K that has had a top-end done, or one in the high teens that has not, and has symptoms of needing so. People might argue with that, but it's true.

Oh yeah, then figure another $5K over two years for replacement of wear and tear items. All of this, assuming you do your own work. That aside, the car is a blast, and really isn't going to be losing any value. You can't say that of other cars. I consider selling my '78 911 (w/ a 3.2L), and my '98 Crown Vic all the time. Both are reliable, paid off, and won't lose value. Any money I put in is for personal enjoyment, or to drive the car longer. That $$ put, in, I might add, is significantly less than any car payment.

Just buy the car you think is the best, and enjoy it! :D (Don't buy the $20K Carrera that needs a top-end ;))

read this first...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=290255&highlight=valve+ stem+seals

I'm not burning oil yet.....but I'm still planning on a top end one day....or a 993 :)

Jason
88 911 CAB

I would not call an air cooled 911 of any vintage fragile. The Carrera's, in particular, are actually very well known as being about the most robust of the entire bunch.

Cars and their components always eventually wear out and let's remember that these cars are anywhere from 17 to 41 years old. They've been on the road for a long time now. How many other cars do you see out there that are that old (that have not been restored and then parked as garage queens)? Very few. And remember that relative to most other auto manufacturers, Porsche only built a very, very tiny number of these cars. That there are so many left on the road today that are still being used as daily drivers is a good indication that these cars are in fact quite robust when taken as a whole.

Remember what Milt said. His records indicated that the valve guides were in need of repair at 110,000 miles and yet his car still runs strong at 235,000 miles with the same valve guides.

Another example is Alex's (PRE H2O) '74 has over 300,000 miles on her and just finally got a new engine. 32 years on one engine is simply amazing in my book. Here's a pic of his car. He drives this car daily too! (Alex, I hope you don't mind me showing off your 32 year old beauty.)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1164391226.jpg

Here's the engine that replaced his 300,000 miler.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1164391296.jpg

...and no one has said a word about Dilavar head studs...

...or DME relays.. ;)

Man... I can't believe it.....today I was on the phone with
2 911 owners with 87-89 Carreras. One of them seemed
quite knowledgeable about Porsches, more than me and
I've done a lot of surfing on these boards for the last
several years. One guy has an 88 with 94k, and the other
guy has an 87 with 55k. The guy with the 55k reiterated
that he has had all the factory service etc and not had any
issues so it doesn't need a top-end (or valve guides). The
guy with the 88 said it affected a few cars and is blown
out of proportion and treated as "gospel" by the magazines
and that except for a few select people, to have anyone
open up your engine and do a top-end is worse than if the
thing is never opened /touched at all. He said in the worst
case you could just have the valve guides themselves done
themselves, but I think above in the thread we determined
that it sort of ends up evolving into a top-end "while your
in their thing anyway". Meanwhile my guy with the recent
top-end rebuild on the 160k mile car he is selling called me
to lower his price some more because he wants to really
sell soon. A year ago I made a huge car mistake with the
wife by overruling her and gettting a parts car for my bimmer
which is still sitting on our driveway--bottom line... this whole
issue with the valve guides is killing me...as they say in chess
I've only got one more move and if its the wrong one... its
game over..

My engine has about 223,000 miles. No valve guide replacement. In fact, nothing major. I pulled the spark plugs the other day and they are perfect (they are NOT original). It is possible for 3.2 engines to last a very long time, if maintained correctly. BTW, my engine pulls hard, but I am sure that it is tired and would benifit from a rebuild, so would my tranny, but I can't afford that at the moment.

Dave

been watching this and heres my 2 cents. bought car w/110k. asked P.O. about valve guides. said no problems. didnt get alot of prior service papers. the actual owner had died and was dealing w/estate and shop consigned to sell car. since i worked for porsche years ago, i knew what i wanted. i also knew what to look out for. noticed leak rear of engine. other than that dry underneath.

bought car, repaired 8th journal seal, have thrown wads of money at it to make trackable.

have run the SNOT out of it like no tommorow at PIR and FIREBIRD raceways. have found 2 nylocks leaking on lower drivers valve cover(fixed), and now after last track session have found another leak on crankcase breather.

smokes a little at start up on cold day, EATS BARELY any oil, and runs like a raped ape with just a K & N filter and single in/out GHL and cat bypass.

114k miles on it now. 1987 manufactured nov.1986. its now 20 years old!

think the whole valve guide issue is overblown. if your not creating a smoke screen behind you on the highway or the track, not consuming gobs of oil.....................what me worry? and even if i was...............CANT WAIT TO REBUILD ENGINE and EEEEKKK every ounce of power we legally can, on dyno, conforming to pca/scca showroom stock rules!

just think of the money spent if you were into say....horses, or top fuel dragsters, or top fuel boats, or baja trophy trucks or class 1 cars, or airplanes!

its a 3.2 glorified/on steroids bug motor w/a BULLET PROOF bottom end that really should never be opened unless you want to find nothing wrong w/it. and the MAJORITY OF PEOPLE on here can attest that if they had to do it again..............they would have NEVER cracked open the bottom end unless something drastic had occurred.

its a crap shoot...........some of these motors are destined to become junk..............and some are destined for glory! i figure that mine treats me so well at the track that it DESERVES an oil change each and everytime it goes to track. screw the 3000 mile change.............i'll be nice to it, because its been nice to me!

There has been rumors that too frequent oil changes actually lower the wear protection qualities..i.e. the oil needs a little run in period to obtain it´s max protection properties...

I am just saying..don´t know if it is true.. ;)