How much faster is 3.2 over 3.0??
 

In the near future I will be doing a rebuild on my 3.0 and I was considering maybe an upgrade to a 3.2 but is it worth and will I get much more power?

I think the SC 3.0 is 180hp for 1980 and newer. I think the 3.2 is 204hp. So if you put a 3.2 into a SC the car will be quicker since the SC is lighter than a Carerra.

Slantnose

I thought going 3.2 when my 3.0 went down, talked to several mechs and they said it would be a no thrill increase. After seeing it would be around $8k to $9k to put in my SC, another idea put in my head 3.6

I read a review on the 3.6 and it seem like it would be a great improvement but it looks really expensive (like $15k or more) and I read about some issues of cooling problems. I am also not sure if my 915 tranny could handle it.

I woudl love to do it though.

Slantnose

do a search on it many have ops...if things go good i have an estimate of 12 to 13k for mine

According to Bruce Anderson, supposedly a few people who bought SC's new back in the day would take their cars straight over to a modification shop, like Kremmer for instance, and have the pistons and cylinders changed out to increase the displacement to about 3.2 liters. Additionally, the mixture would be adjusted somewhat. The result, they claimed, was 220 horsepower.

Nice list of stuff slantnose.....I think you could lose the middle three though ;)

Another option might be to just do a swap rather than a rebuild. If so, the 1987-89 3.2s have 217hp and can make more.

The 3.6 would be sweet though and you might be able to score a used engine on a deal.

All would have to be within smog since you drive an '80......


-Chris

How about a ROW 3.2 with 231 bhp ? That´s a 50 ponies difference. Wouldn´t one notice that ?

r.o.w. 3.2 w/ ssi and '74 style exhaust + weber 40s w/ a 7:31 r/p gearbox makes for a really fun car.

.2?

As Bill eloquently states .2. No big deal going stock 3.0 to 3.2 meaning you MAY be able to feel a difference. Now if you go to the 3.2 AND do headers, exhaust, lose the cat then you will feel a real difference. Throw in a shorter set of gears say 3 & 4 and ...well...

What does the ROW 3.2 offer as far as component differences that give it that increase in HP?

My stock 3.0 with SSI, PMO, & M&K dynos out at 204 HP @ 5,800 and 214 ft/lbs at 4,400 at the flywheel. Lots of torque for my early car but it peters out around 6k. I'd like to get more top end.

Considering that you're in CA, any engine swap will require some fancy footwork with a smog referee, with a 3.6 being the hardest to make "legal". Consider a 3.2 build on your 3.0 (as mentioned above). With CIS, cat, and a 964 cam you will still pass smog.

3.2 r.o.w. has 10.3:1 c.r. or thereabouts. The 3.2 heads flow really well too. ...again makes for a nice engine after a few minor mods.

My built 3.0 pulls 215 at the wheels and is a hoot to drive. ...another option.
3.0
heads ported by walt
9.3:1 c.r. high dome mahle p/c
Elgin Mod S cams
ssi and '74 exhaust
re-curved dizzy w/ msd
and weber 40's w/ tall manifolds etc.
stock '74 gear box w/ 7:31 r/p

Joe,

You need bigger better camshafts to gain the top end charge. Stock 3.0 CIS cams are too small to exploit the PMO's for me. Remember, until you get rid of CIS pistons your still quite restricted...might think Webcam 20/21's. My 9.3:1 3.0 dyno'd at 231. You could/should also recurve the dizzy for the carbs and cams. I don't have my torque figures in hand, but not much better than yours, just more area under the curve due to more reach.

What size PMO's?

Back on topic: Do you plan to retain the EFI vs CIS? This gives more flexibility though complicates the swap. I'd think the swap more beneficial if you keep EFI.


No swap option:
Rebuild, swap in a 3.2 crank and rods for $1250. Buy some JE's if you don't have KS cylinders and for 2250 - 900 (for your crank and rods) you'll get the rebuilt 0 mile engine and gain .2. You could possibly have Henry make your 3.0 rods work with the 3.2 crank and pistons.

.2 + better flow in the heads + built-in chain tensioners + better induction

I have been in a 3.6 powered SC, Man that is the way to fly if you can handle the money end. That car is just plain old angry, in a good way. I believe he is still running the factory 915. They can handle 300 horses before they gernade. If my 3.0 ever blows up, I'm going the 3.6 route.

If you want power, don't go 3.2 or 3.6, or you'll be saying damn, I could a had a V8!! Renegade hybrids V8 baby!!

Sorry, couldn't resist :)

cheapest yet may be turbo....

-Chris

Slantnose - I opt you rebuild your 3.0. Why? Because you'll never know what you'll get when you pick up a used 3.2 or 3.6 or even another 3.0. Sure, you can get a nice used engine, but you could also get an engine that needs a lot of work. I've bought used engines before, and believe me, after all the leakdown testing and other sniffing around it, there still remains shades of doubt as to whether the motor will hold up, especially if it is bought from someone other than a reputable mechanic, shop or owner in the Porsche world.

If you rebuild your 3.0, you can customize it for not much more, i.e. short stroke it to a 3.2, different induction, headers - whatever. If done properly, the 3.0 could be a lot more powerful than a 3.6. I've seen true streetable 3.0s develop over 300 hp.

The big plus in having your own rebuilt motor is you know it's brand new. You know that in three months, you won't have to replace the valve guides or deal with busted chain tensioners or whatever. The engine, in other words, if rebuilt correctly, could outlive you.

My suggestion, as you're in San Diego, is to call Henry Schmidt at Supertec, who is in Fallbrook. Henry's been able to extract upwards of 240 hp from 3.0 CIS motors.

Good luck

I was looking at the Supertec website. I saw what they have to offer and I woudl like to rebuild it myself. I was thinking about buying a 3.6 and rebuilding it while my 3.0 is still runnig fine and then when done dropping it in.

I guess I'm looking for somethign with some grunt....maybe tire smoking power. The 3.0 right now is definately weak.

Well, since some of you are getting carried away, I'd like to suggest a more non-traditional mod: installation of a General Electric T58-8F. See photo of a 2002 VW Beetle to get an idea of the potential. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1164940705.jpg

Good for about 1350hp. Redlines at 26,000rpm. not sure how the smog test would go.... And, it's simple! Engine only has three gears: Cool, Big-Fire, and Afterburner!

Check out the whole photo gallery and story at http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/

Anyway, sorry to get off track, but i couldn't resist. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1164941108.jpg

Don't think I'd want to be anywhere behind this guy on the track when he shifts into "Afterburner".

I figured I'd need a bigger cam. What size?
I don't want to give up much torque.

I have PMOs w/ 40s now. Real nice throttle response. Being at 9.3:1 now, I figure a 9.8:1 squeeze or higher would make a difference and with a Electromotive distributorless HO ignition. How high or an RPM can be run with theses larger valves?

BTW, whats a dizzy?

Maybe I should just sell the Porsche an buy a Pantera.

I would think a conversion to a 3.2 isn't that straight forward. Because of the Motronic control you would need a module (not cheap) and the wiring harness to connect the new motor to it. I think it would be easier to try to tweak the extra 20HP or so by modifying your existing engine. A complete teardown of your 3.0 would be cheaper and less headache than the conversion.

I will probably pull the engine and rebuild it and add all sorts of goodies. I am going to wait until I have the time and until it needs it. I rebuilt the motor in my BMW M6 so this can't be that difficult.

When the 3.2 was new Car and Driver did a nice story on them and said that the 1984 3.2 was a full second quicker from 0-60 than the 3.0 SC was.

I have an 84 Euro and the difference between the US version and ROW version is quite noticable.

didn't car and driver do it with a euro spec 3.2? if so did they compare it to the US 3.0 SC? or did they compare it to a euro spec 3.0?

I can't see any reason to put a $10-15k 3.6L engine into a $10-15k SC. If you want more power,

1) turbocharge your 3.0. It will cost 1/3-1/2 the money of a 3.6l transplant and give you more hp.

2) sell your SC and buy a 964. You'll get the engine plus a more capable suspension and brakes.

I've driven my neighbors US 84 and its noticeably slower than my 84 ROW with a Steve Wong chip, no other mods to my car.

Anybody going to a bigger motor, I'll be interested in your 3.0...


KT

Bill if a 3.2 is .2 faster than a 3.0 what is a 3.6 over a 3.0?

.7? No No , wait, I know this. Ummm, carry the 1, add square root of 3.6 to product of the sum of the number of cylinders... got it!

.6

Not true. 1978 SC = 1236 kg 1984 Carrera = 1210 kg

Look it up. It's a common assumption, but the Carreras are not as heavy, and they are more powerful. They look better too, IMHO :D

Curious... Does the ROW pass smog?

To keep it pretty simple, I would rebuild the 3.0, swap in a 3.2L crank/rods when you're in there (modified to use stock 3.0 p/c, OR use 3.2 p/c), port the heads to 39/37mm, and install 20/21 cams. CIS is easy to live with; TBITZ EFI maybe, if you want to go one more level up. That should make you 220-230 easily with stock exhaust. Better (headers, 993 exchangers) exhaust would net you even more, around 240-250...not smog legal though w/o a cat

All things considered, sounds like it would be easier to just swap the whole car for a newer model with a 3.2 or 3.6. ;)

I heard Juan Ruiz's car is for sale. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/317596-selling-d-car-whats-wrong.html

That car has a little grunt and it might even smoke a tire or two :)

Ps. I don't know Juan or the price of his car.

I agree with dd74. And regarding the whole issue of more power, I felt the way you do when I first got my SC, but then I started driving it a little more aggressively (i.e. taking it a little higher in the rev range before shifting), and it really has all the power that is needed for street driving. If I'm trying to get to 50 or 60 very quickly I can do so. 1st gear off line is really the only negative. Many years ago when I was hoping up my BMW and asked my mechanic about some "upgrades" (chip, etc) he said "how often do you now floor it when accelerating?". The answer was not very often, and his response was "since you are not using the acceleration and power the car already offers, why do you need more power?". Very good question. He is a wise man and a good mechanic, though I did some of the upgrades anyway!!

Slantnose, please loose half of your signature, who cares what jetski you had before, it takes half a page to scroll thru that nonsense.

I did this - from 3.0L SC motor to 3.2L with Cams, Lightweight Flywheel, Autothority Mass AirFlow stand alone system+ Autothority ECU chip, SSI non cat with custom muffler.
The new motor feels much stronger, it revs much happier and has more torgue. Yes, it did cost more than the 3.0L rebuild but wouldn't you want something more exciting after you spend your money?