G-50 non-hydraulic clutch conversion?

Tyson Schmidt · 12-12-2006, 05:14 PM

Doing a search, I saw mentioned that there is now a conversion out that swaps a G50 to non-hydraulic.

This would be a big help for a G50 conversion into an older car. Anybody have any info on this?

Tyson Schmidt · 12-13-2006, 08:04 AM

Morning bump.

Jim Richards · 12-13-2006, 08:06 AM

Sounds evil, and exciting, Tyson.

Tyson Schmidt · 12-13-2006, 09:07 AM

It would be if it does exist!

So far just a rumor. If it does, then it would save a lot of headache on a G50 conversion. particularly if you have a pre-power booster car, since you could retain the original pedal cluster and MC.

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Sounds like something Wevo would make doesn't it?
(Yes, I know Tyson works for Wevo.)
-Chris

Jim Richards · 12-13-2006, 10:13 AM

JWW, perhaps?

Superman · 12-13-2006, 10:20 AM

Hey Tyson. I can appreciate the difficulty of installing a hydraulic pedal system into an older car. Then again, hydraulic systems are favored in many applications because of their almost infallible reliability.

On a side note my brother in law, a retired heavy equipment mechanic among other things, made the observation that hydraulic power may be the one thing that can travel faster than light. Think about it. If you had a perfectly rigid hose (I've often wished for this) filled with hydraulic fluid with a cylinder and piston at each end, and if you pushed one of the pistons, the other piston would move AT THE SAME TIME. This would be the case if one piston were in Los Angeles and the other piston were on the Moon.

MotoSook · 12-13-2006, 10:45 AM

I've been mulling this over too as my 915 will ultimately be too weak for the engine I will end up with. Jim (Superman) brings up a good point about the hydraulic system reliability...and I'll add flexibility.

I have tried to come up with ideas in my head to make the conversion as simple as possible, but I keep coming back to installing a master cylinder to stroke the slave. It doesn't have to be a stock Porsche master cylinder, just one that strokes the slave enough to fully disengage the clutch.

Now! Wevo just has to come up with a mounting block that will allow easy installation of a non-native master cylinder. Then a small diameter hydraulic hose can be routed any way the installer sees fit...and for best fit.

The alternative is a custom clutch cable, and a lot of work to move the fork in the G50. Maybe a ram-and-pivot arm mechanism.

I find it easier to have a hydraulic hose made (my FLAPS) than a custom clutch cable.

Tyson Schmidt · 12-13-2006, 12:19 PM

It's not really the hydraulic system that's the problem. It's the G50 pedal cluster that is designed for a power brake system.

It would require either converting the car to power brakes by cutting and welding in the pieces to the chassis in the trunk floor, or heavily modifying either the original pedal cluster to recieve the clutch hydraulics, or heavily modifying the new cluster to use a non-boosted MC down at the floor.

MotoSook · 12-13-2006, 12:26 PM

Why touch the older pedal cluster at all? Make the original clutch pedal stroke a master at the bell crank that's at the start of the tunnel. It'll take less work to create something that utilizes the bell crank (where you would normally screw stock fork and clevis.)

Tyson Schmidt · 12-13-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Souk
Why touch the older pedal cluster at all? Make the original clutch pedal stroke a master at the bell crank that's at the start of the tunnel. It'll take less work to create something that utilizes the bell crank (where you would normally screw stock fork and clevis.)

Sure, but you'd lose the helper spring from the G50 cluster. Not the end of the world, but might require knee replacement after a few years.

MotoSook · 12-13-2006, 12:35 PM

Use a larger master...or create a bolt-in system that has a helper spring?

john walker's workshop · 12-13-2006, 12:37 PM

the cable could work a bellcrank of sorts that operates a small vw or 356 master cylinder mounted on the side of the trans, which in turn operated a dunebuggy style Neal slave cylinder mounted on the trans.

MotoSook · 12-13-2006, 12:56 PM

I was thinking that the stock G-50 slave can be used (why create a problem for a solution that's already there), if the master cylinder was sized appropriately (for slave stroke length and pedal pressure). But John's suggestion has merit...there is certainly more than one way to do it a hydraulic retrofit.

kojo911 · 12-13-2006, 04:19 PM

Tyson,

What about using a Tilton pedal cluster? wouldn't that be easier?

Ken

Tyson Schmidt · 12-13-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kojo911
Tyson,

What about using a Tilton pedal cluster? wouldn't that be easier?

Ken

I don't know. I won't know until I see if this other kit even exists.

kojo911 · 12-15-2006, 10:22 AM

Let me know if it exists. I'm in the same boat as you, major surgery to install a vacuum booster etc. Kinda tired of trying to like my 915 tranny. I know a lot of guys like them, but compared to a g50 they blow!

Thanks
Ken

dad911 · 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superman
Hey Tyson. I can appreciate the difficulty of installing a hydraulic pedal system into an older car. Then again, hydraulic systems are favored in many applications because of their almost infallible reliability.

On a side note my brother in law, a retired heavy equipment mechanic among other things, made the observation that hydraulic power may be the one thing that can travel faster than light. Think about it. If you had a perfectly rigid hose (I've often wished for this) filled with hydraulic fluid with a cylinder and piston at each end, and if you pushed one of the pistons, the other piston would move AT THE SAME TIME. This would be the case if one piston were in Los Angeles and the other piston were on the Moon.

At the risk of going OT with this, I think not. 1st, each 'molecule' of hydraulic fluid would need to 'push' the adjacent molecule for the pressure to travel, and this would take time. 2nd, I would reasonable assume that due to the space between molecules, the pressure would be lost in a line that long.

Back On Track, we used a pedal cluster from a 964 in my 77 conversion, and ran a hydraulic line. It was not that hard. Used a 'quick disconnect' at the trans end for engine drops.

MotoSook · 12-15-2006, 10:57 AM

Can you post pictures of the 964 pedal cluster installation?

davidppp · 12-15-2006, 11:33 AM

Hello all.

As posted, the speed of hydraulics is much slower than Light!

It is in fact the speed of sound in whatever meadium is involved: liquid is faster then air of course..

Kind regards
david