I have 964 windshield and seal in my '76.
The seal is more flush or flat as in no trim sticking out in the wind.
Sorry not able to take pics at the moment.
I had minor leak in lower outer corners that I fixed with RTV, I know, I know it will be PITA to remove.
Actually I have also have 964 targa rear window with 3rd brake light and 964 seal and IIRC something had to be cut in the seal to fit.

Don -
When you say "early car" do you mean pre '74 or just earlier than a 964?
Thanks,
Tom

I am referring to the 65-89 911's windshields. Their all the same size.
When the 964 came out the windshield was made bigger as well as the opening in the body.

We have been installing Porsche windshields now for over 20 years.
We have done a pile of them!
So... I don't know HOW the guys that said that installed a 964 windshield got them in. :confused:
PLEASE educate ME. ;)
By the eye a Carrera windshield looks just like a 964 one.
SmileWavy

So then are you thinking people are using 911 glass w/ 964 rubber?

We have never had any luck with using the 964 rubber ether with an early glass. It's just to big.
I guess if you wanted to make a few extra cuts in it to make it smaller?
I am only going by our experiences. :D

We tried to but a early windshield in this C2 race car and it was to small.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1170433607.jpg

We tried to install a 964 seal in this 89 930 with no luck as well.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1170433728.jpg

I'm not sure, IIRC we used a string to pull in the seal.
It's be sitting there for years now.
Here's an pic from 2005, it's what I could find, you should be able to see both front and rear window are 964 seals without trim.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1170438922.jpg

Thanks! But I know ya use a string. :D
We have tried to do rear coupe windows as well and couldn't get to work.
We haven't tried to to do it to a Targa like in your pic.

I am gona get out my factory body manuals and post them for you guys when I get a chance. ;)
SmileWavy

I personally tried to put 964 windsheild in an 85 cab & the seal only covers the metal flange by about a 1/8" & wouldn't stay in.
Broke the first one, so had a tech come over with a new on & he had the same problem, fought it for an hour. The origin 85 went in in about 15 min. by myself.

My 89 930 glass has an antenna in it. Does that mean it is 964 glass?

Nope, many 911's have the attenna glass.

The glass is coming out of the car for paint anyway, it has the antenna in the glass and it has some milkiness along the base, which isn't a big deal for me. What can I do to clean up the aerodynamics at the top of the windshield? It sounds like the reason to change glass is just to get a different flush seal. Can I fit one of those seals with my existing windshield? I'd be willing to change the windshield to get the flush seal.

I'm getting mixed messages from this thread. What is the story regarding the extra seal to put the later windshield in and get it to seal? Could you give me some more detail?

Thanks.

The bottom line seems to be that putting stock 911 glass into a stock 964 seal and then trying to install it in a stock 911 simply won't work.

However in my case, I am putting Lexan into a 964 seal and then installing it into a 1983 911. I can therefore cut (trim) the Lexan to any size I wish, and can therefore fit it into a 964 seal. No need for me to go into the details of how I'm going to measure and trim the Lexan, but the finished Lexan piece will be slightly larger than the 911 glass that it is replacing.

the reason you're getting mixed messages is that some of us are talking about a hand-crafted modification such as the one I've described in the second paragraph, others are talking about attempting the procedure described in paragraph one above.

Thanks Steve. One more question, will putting a 964 seal and 964 glass in an 89 911 work?

Geeze you are a lazy reader.

"Here's an pic from 2005, it's what I could find, you should be able to see both front and rear window are 964 seals without trim."

vs.


" Formerly Steve Wilkinson - That's odd, Steve Weiner does it all the time.

In response to:

rdane quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Porsche Doc
I have tried to put a 964 windshield and seal in early car with NO success. The glass and seal are bigger than the earlier ones.
I have also tried to put a earlier windsield in a 964 too with no luck.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"

Not lazy, just trying to nail down who has and who has not done what.

Yeah, my post about Steve Weiner was lazy too. What I neglected to specify was that he does it with custom-trimmed Lexan, not stock glass.

"just trying to nail down who has and who has not done what."

- Yes, and please specify what seal you used when you post. That might be a critical issue.

For those interested in the 964 glass b/c of its antenna, I started a new thread on that.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/335616-antenna-windshield-vs-under-dash.html

Thanks for helping out. Unless there is a way to enlarge the opening (that's gotta be nuts), I guess I'm stuck with the stock seal on my street car.

Just so aerodynamically... offensive, even if it's 1 mph and 1 db.

Couple of things to add to the glass thread. My take is Pre '74 wind shields are smaller and the seal smaller with trim than latter windows.

Porsche part numbers I am told show different part numbers for '78- '89 than pre '74. Check the Porsche numbers first.

The 964 glass and seal is slightly bigger. Not every seal is the same even in same production years and part numbers. The shop I am currently working with has added 964 glass and seals to a number of earlier cars (read pre '76). But it doesn't work with every car every time. The SC Series seems to be a problem.

My '79 won't take a later windshield and 964 seal so there is obviously some variation between cars and years. We are, as I type this, now trying an earlier windshield and a 964 seal. I'll let you know how that goes shortly. The 964 windshield and the seal with trim wasn't the right answer wither IMO. Radio antenna will have to go inside the dash if this set up works..

Plexiglass windshields are the easiest way to make it happen but you can also use a glass grinder to accomplish the same effect.

From my take on it, using my car as an example, the 964 seal conversion is not for the faint of heart or one light in the pocket book.

NO!
SmileWavy

"you can also use a glass grinder to accomplish the same effect." Care to elaborate? Use 964 glass but trim it down and use the 964 seal?

Philip take a look at my last post and the edit. I don't think glass grinding is the way you want to go. Looks to me like my last shop did that just to get the 964 glass in...but it was never done right. (it left gaps on the edges and it leaked) Window is out right now redoing it. So far it has been a bbbeeeeeeeaach with one broken windshield to date trying to use the 964 glass and seal.

I'll know more in a couple of days.

Thanks again. Looking forward to the final results.

We tried to grind one down ONCE! We put it in and all was good.
Till we came in the next day and it was BROKE!

So I think the bottom line here is USE the right seal an windshield.
It will save you a Lot of $$$ and all the BS that goes with it.

We won't even try it any more. Especially when a 964 windshield cost over $900 bucks and I can't afford eating any more.

GooD Luck Guys your gona need it. ;)
SmileWavy

Hmmmm,

I've wanted to do this to my 78 Turbo, and was actually headed down that path within the next 2 weeks... until I ran across this thread.

Have seen earlier cars with the 964 seal front and rear....no idea which glass was used.

Had a friend that did this to a 77 Turbo, he even changed to 964 doors as this provides a different side seal as well.

The Porsche part number for these seals are listed as fitting 87 thru 94

OK, It looks like there is no combination that will work - unless somebody starts making custom seals...

Where did all those old posts about putting a 964 windshield/seal into an earlier car come from anyway?

re 1 db & etc. ...
Phil - you might be able to make something that would blend the gap at top into the roof line. I don't think it would be pretty -- something like the bulbous look of a 964 bumper but on the top windshield/roof seam...

Don't be too quick on that opinion Randy. 964 seals do work in older (pre 74) cars with the original size windshield. My shop has done many of them. Just not every car every time. Still haven't tried that combo (older, smaller size windshield and 964 seal) in my car but will this week.

Rdane..

Just want to clearly understand..

So 964 seal... which windshield?

Lettuce understand that the problem is not which seal or which windshield, it's which seal and which windshield into which car. Gets complicated.

True - I was referring back to the original post... or what I dimly remember to be the original post.

Here's a whataa I'ma gonna do:

My stock 89 (assuming it hasn't been replaced) windshield with the internal antenna will come out for paint. I'll have my guy order the 964 seal and try it. If it doesn't fit, I'll go with the stock seal. Any tricks for getting this combo to fit, if it will fit?

I looked into this conversion a little. The flange on the 911 and 964 are actually different, I believe the 964 being 15mm and the earlier 911 10mm wide. Another interesting fact I was told that non factory PPG replacement glass seems to only come in one size for both body types now, not the two sizes that Porsche shows.

i have a 74 with ppg glass no trim . the seal is made to use trim but it looks like a no trim seal when used with ppg glass no gap the seal looks good

I just got my w/s replaced in the 87'. Stock glass with a 964 seal. Just drove to Cali and back, no issues and no leaks. The installer used a rope and had it installed in 1 hour.

I got my car back today after some issues with a 964 windshield and 964 trim.

Maybe this will help someone else thinking about the conversion.

First off my car is a '79 coupe. Targas are another story all together I am told.

When we did the major body work conversion one of the things I had done was replace the standard windshield with a 964 windshield with a antenna inside the window. That was a couple of years ago and I was rushing to get the car done after months in the shop. I now remember that I had also wanted to go with a 964 seal and there were some "issues" that I didn't investigate further at the time. I should have.

Got the car back with a 964 window in the car but the original '79 seal and trim. Turns out it was never done correctly and the installer ground the corners of the winshield to get the 964 glass to work with the original '79 seal. Window leaked and worse yet it was never very stable in the frame. Lucky I didn't loose the glass out of the car in normal driving let alone on the track. I never realized just how bad it was.

Talking with one the more reputable local shops who has done the 964 seal conversion on many earlier (pre '74) race cars I thought it time to refit the seal and attempt to fill the typical gaps between seal and A pillar on the driver's side that cause water leaks.

I had leaks in heavy rain but wasn't really sure where they were coming from...wind screen seal wasn't the first suspect. But thought it worth looking at.

Porsche has 3 different parts numbers for earlier wind screens er but those are normally a tint/color option and then there are two diffent wind screens by seal size. As Ryce commented on, the window opening is the same but "around" (can be before or after, no rime or reason on this one) 10/3/1988 the pinch weld lip inside the window went from 10mm to 15mm. That changes the windshield and the seal required. Best thing to do is measure your pinch weld.

Windows are suppose to be the same size but most window guys will disagree with that point as well with the 964 window being a bit larger the pre'88 a bit smaller.

Monty tried every combination of windshield (7) and seal (2 styles) and a dozen different seals for manufacturing variations. The only thing that actually fit my car correctly was a '79 windshield and a '79 seal with metal trim. (no big surprize :)

We ended up using a FM amp under the dash for the radio as I never us AM anyway. Also Monty was able to move the glass around and center it in the window with no gaps on the upper corners of the A pillar where a previous installer had used dum-dum or 7mm rope.

Mine is not the easiest car to work because it seems to be at max spec in the windshield frame...but the job came out perfect.
I have to thank Monty at Redmond European for putting the time and effort to make it better than right...it is actually perfect.

As you can see in this thread some have been successful in the conversion some have not. Best thing to do if you have a glass guy willing to try is give it a shot. But my caution is, if they don't succeed fairly easily the first try I wouldn't force it. My guess is you'll be happier by just going back to your original style window and seal.

Good luck as it is a cool conversion!

Now what about the back window?

Sounds like 964 glass and 964 seal won't work well in the '84 to '87 Carrera series, right?

Now that I am at the point of making the measurements in order to trim my Lexan windshield to fit into a 964 seal and be installed in an '83 SC, it looks to me like the Lexan needs to be about 5/16" larger than the stock 911 glass all the way around. Maybe slightly less, but that's a considerable difference in glass size in any case. I'm going to cut it to 5/16" larger so that I can sand it down further if that's too big, but I'll post my end results.

From my limited experience I believe that to be correct.

RDane,

Thanks for taking the time to post this data.

I'll have my 89 930 measured, but

"As Ryce commented on, the window opening is the same but "around" (can be before or after, no rime or reason on this one) 10/3/1988 the pinch weld lip inside the window went from 10mm to 15mm. That changes the windshield and the seal required. Best thing to do is measure your pinch weld. "

Since I haven't looked into this, is it the general consensus that the 15 mm pinch weld lip allows the 964 seal?

According to Porsche yes, 15mm will take the 964 seal and window. Suppose to start at serial # 91KS12059 in the coupe and serial # 93KS060072 in the Turbo coupe but you still need to measure.