Alternative Fuel Injectors

[scarceller]

Originally Posted by JimNap

Hello everyone, I hope that no one minds me resurrecting an older thread here.

I've got an 85.2 944 that uses the same 158 injectors as you Carrera folks.

I discovered that some of my injectors had cracked pintle caps when removing the intake to perform a swap on the ISV/Idle Control Valve. The 4 injectors were sent for service and I heard back from the servicing place that 2 had leaking pintle cap seals (or soemthing similar) and could not be serviced.

I found this thread while looking for more info on the 158's, and I had heard that 159's could also be used. But I now see the info on the 364's which is of course very interesting.

Does anyone have any idea why the 364's wouldnt also work on a 2.5L in a late model 944? Physically they do look identical and apparently from the testing that was done they also test identical - except for the pintle cap. Besides being metal, the caps appear longer and would extend further into the intake plenum. I would suspect this only helps maintain the spray pattern by getting the spray further away from the plenum side walls.

Any theories on 944 usage of the 364 injector?

The 158 and 159 are indeed very close flow rates, I'd bet the 364 will work just fine, they should fit perfectly in place of the 158. Contact Howard at http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com he'll get you a nice st of 4. Also, to be 100% on the flow rate send Howard an old 158 and he'll flow it side by side with the 364.

Good luck

[JimNap]

Originally Posted by scarceller

The 158 and 159 are indeed very close flow rates, I'd bet the 364 will work just fine, they should fit perfectly in place of the 158. Contact Howard at http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com he'll get you a nice st of 4. Also, to be 100% on the flow rate send Howard an old 158 and he'll flow it side by side with the 364.

Good luck

I'm a little worried. Per Howard's website (link above), the specs are I think considerably different between the stock 0-280-150-158 injector, and the suggested replacement 0-280-150-364.

Here are the specs Howard has posted:

BOSCH LBS/HR CC/MIN GRAMS PSI BAR

..158 21.8 229.1 164.8 36.25 2.5
..364 25.7 270.1 194.3 43.5 3

are there any long-term users on the 0-280-150-364 injector that can report back?

Jim

[safe]

You have to take into account that they are specified at different fuel pressures.

364 has 20% more flow but at 20% higher preassure, it isn't a 100% linear relationship, but pretty close.

[JimNap]

Originally Posted by safe

You have to take into account that they are specified at different fuel pressures.

364 has 20% more flow but at 20% higher preassure, it isn't a 100% linear relationship, but pretty close.

Thanks! I feel better about getting the 364's now. I'll be placing my order this afternoon for a matched set.

Now I just hope I got everything on my shopping list here at Pelican for the job!

Jim
1985.5 944 N/A

[ianc]

I'll be placing my order this afternoon for a matched set.

Great! I participated in this thread quite some time ago and don't have time to reread it now, but the best recollection I have is that no one here actually tried the 364's and reported back with their results.

If you could give us some feedback on your experiences with them, I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

ianc

[alniki]

I got a set of 364 from Howards and installed them on my car. Ran way better than the original set which was definitely not working properly IMO.

[scarceller]

Originally Posted by ianc

Great! I participated in this thread quite some time ago and don't have time to reread it now, but the best recollection I have is that no one here actually tried the 364's and reported back with their results.

If you could give us some feedback on your experiences with them, I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

ianc

Ian,

I did test the 364s thoroughly against the 158s in my car. The test was done by logging the AirFuelRatios of a 2nd gear WOT run with my WideBandO2 recorder. The results are above in post #206.

Bottom line: the 364 is a very nice near perfect match to the 158 - I have been running the 364s for about 3000miles now with no issues.

[stlrj]

I recently installed a set of low impedance GM Multec's PN 17103001. The first thing I noticed was a much smoother idle and when driving off, much more torque off the line.

I had my neighbor across the street who just bought an 89 3.2 try it out and was impressed as well. When he finally gets tired of the ho hum performance of his newly acquired car, we might be installing a set of these injectors in his too.


Cheers,

Joe
74 911 w/ late production 86 3.2

[89turbocabmike]

Cool thread, lots of good info here.

If there is someone in the SoCal area who wants to experiment with the different injector options, I'll provide some dyno time

[rick-l]

Just to be sure is this what I want for my 88?

BOSCH 0280150360 Multi-Port Injector

Motorman does not list a 364 but says he will make a 360 a 364 if you want.

I don't see a 158 or 159.

[stlrj]

Applications:

BUICK 1984 SKYHAWK CUSTOM 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
BUICK 1984 SKYHAWK T-TYPE 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
BUICK 1985 SKYHAWK T-TYPE 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
BUICK 1986 SKYHAWK T-TYPE 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PONTIAC 1984 J2000 SUNBIRD 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PONTIAC 1984 J2000 SUNBIRD LE 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PONTIAC 1984 J2000 SUNBIRD SE 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PONTIAC 1985 SUNBIRD 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PONTIAC 1986 SUNBIRD 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PONTIAC 1986 SUNBIRD GT 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PONTIAC 1985 SUNBIRD LE 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PONTIAC 1985 SUNBIRD SE 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PONTIAC 1986 SUNBIRD SE 1.8L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PORSCHE 1983 944 2.5L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PORSCHE 1984 944 2.5L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector
PORSCHE 1985 944 2.5L 4 Cyl. Fuel Injector


It just so happens the GM multec injectors I installed, PN 17103001, were off an 86 Pontiac Sunbird. So it seems that Motor Man does know what he's talking about.

BTW, they're a whole lot cheaper when you get them up from your local auto recycler.

Cheers,

Joe
74 911 w/ 86 3.2

[rick-l]

Sal

Did you have to make any adjustments when you ran the 360 injectors or were they fine right out of the box?

[stlrj]

Just a quick update. Just installed a set of low impedance Quad Four injectors from an 92-98 Pontiac Grand Am...so far so good. They seem much better, higher flow meaning more zoom than what Motor Man recommends.


Cheers,

Joe

[Joeaksa]

Joe,

Any guess on mileage? About the same or higher?

[stlrj]

Better mileage. Took a round trip to Reno from the bay area and got 31.5 mpgs. And that was with my miles based on my GPS and not my highly inaccurate odometer.


Joe

[brads911sc]

I use Accel for my EFI setup. work great.

[rick-l]

Has anyone bought these from motorman lately? Howard doesn't seem to answer his e-mail.

[stlrj]

Those are not the right injectors you will need that Motor Man lists. If you get a hold of him, tell him you need Quad Four injectors from a 92-98 Pontiac Grand Am.


Cheers,

Joe

[Jascha]

The Table below tells it all (fuel injector flow rates).

When you compare the flow rates, be sure to adjust for the fuel pressure rating (e.g. the higher fuel pressure should have a proportionately higher flow rate -assuming a linear response in the operating range)

From the Table:

0-280-150-158 (flow is 229.1 cc/min at 36.25 PSI)

0-280-150-360 (flow 270.1 cc/min at 43.5 PSI)

0-280-150-364 (flow 270.1 cc/min at 43.5 PSI)

fuel injector flow rates

[Jascha]

For the GM injectors in question:

17103001 (flow 206 cc/min at 43.5 PSI)

All things being equal, would suggest a lower fuel delivery than 'stock 158' injectors (!)