Pre-bodywork questions.

AtomicDog · 02-02-2007, 06:03 AM

All,

For those of you who have tried this on your own...

1) How is the headlight bucket retained within the fender? (Both buckets are perforated/disappearing.)

2) How long will it take me to remove and reinstall a fender? (At some point it will need to be both sides, but driver's side for now. All original undercoating is in place, though I wouldn't go so far as to say "intact".)

Thanks in advance. Suggestions/advice both welcomed and encouraged.

Chris

Hetmann · 02-02-2007, 08:01 AM

The headlight bucket is integral to the fender. Changing fenders is essentially an unbolt old - bolt on new affair. Once you slice through the Schutz and get the hard to reach fasteners in the a pillar. Of course you will need to line the new fenders up. The only real challenge is the gas door cable. That is a @#E&^$.

AtomicDog · 02-02-2007, 08:32 AM

Jerry,

Thank you for the intel. Since the fender alignment is not currently correct, things can only get better.

With regards to the headlight bucket, are there spot welds that need to come apart? I have no issues with replacing a weld-in part if the fender survives removal of the old bucket.

I've heard that the fuel door spring and release cable are tricky.

Chris

DarrylD · 08:39 AM

My question to you is, "Do you like your current door gaps?" Do your doors fit with a perfect 3-4 mm gap at the front edge?

Porsche fenders are custom fit on the assembly line, meaning body solder (lead) added as needed to make the gaps uniform between the body, fenders and door, especially at the door top where they meet the windshield pillar. Just take a look at the amount of steel that I welded on and body solder I carved off to fit a '68 fender to my '66 body and then compared it to the factory gap on my '74:

In the bodyshop world, new Porsche fenders are considered "semi-finished" meaning that major bodywork is required to fit them. Fitting used fenders off a different car is really a can of worms because you have to re-do the body solder around the door gap, which means both the door and the fender may require work.

Then there's the whole can of worms you open when discovering that the fender flanges are rotten and will require major rust repair.

My advice on replacing headlight buckets... replace them with the fender on the car. Find some good donor buckets and cut an extra ½" of the fender sheetmetal around the outer lip and make the weld seam outside the bucket when you put them on your old fenders.

Unless you're prepared to spend the money to do it right to fix any rust you encounter on the flanges and properly fit fenders on both sides, keep the original fenders and graft in new buckets!

Darryl D.

Hetmann · 02-02-2007, 03:04 PM

I think I was pretty lucky with my car. My old fenders had no rust at all and came off pretty easily. My car had been repainted at some point by the PO. I went to turbo front fenders and the ones I got fit amazingly well. We had to do some fitting, but the door gaps were acceptable.

My car's a 78 and I believe the turbo fenders were off a galvanized car as well. Since Chris' car is an 86 I don't think rust should be too big an issue, but then again his buckets are shot.

You never really know. I was amazed at the 12 pounds or so of dirt piled up on top of my washer bottle. There's no where fro it to go so it just accumulates.

Zeke · 02-02-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarrylD

My advice on replacing headlight buckets... replace them with the fender on the car. Find some good donor buckets and cut an extra ½" of the fender sheetmetal around the outer lip and make the weld seam outside the bucket when you put them on your old fenders.

I don't think I've ever disagreed with Darryl, but a circumference weld like that is not a easy job. As you can see, I did just that on the top quarter of this 356 where a new piece was formed and installed.

It's a lot easier to remove the bucket (there are about a dozen spot welds), do any repairs and then reinstall a new or used bucket. Don't forget to leave the space for the ring-to-body seal. It's about the thickness of 2 dimes. (Note: the brazing is just to touch up any pin holes.)

Sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do, and when the buckets are bad, there is likely damage surrounding. That's why Darryl says what he says.

AtomicDog · 02-06-2007, 10:29 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the replies. You have each given me something to think about - which should account for my delay in responding...

After looking through one of the RSR conversion threads, I have come to the conclusion that F/G fenders are no picnic. I think the rust repair would be more forgiving.

I also have to agree with milt - a hidden weld is always preferable to an exposed weld. I should also mention that the fender in question has another rust spot behind the wheel well, where the rocker cover ends. Perhaps I should be looking for a spare fender, just in case.

DarrylD,

Your photo of the rotted fender mounting flange is exactly why I haven't started this project. The fender support panel could be a land of unhappy surprises too.

Your work on the fender tip/door gap is incredible. It looks better than the factory work.

What kind of template or gage did you use to verify the door gaps during your fit-up? I need to find something like the Eastwood nylon "feeler gage" type gap checkers prior to adjusting my doors or replacing the hinge bushings.

I'm sure I'll have more questions shortly.

Thanks again.

Chris

DarrylD · 02-06-2007, 04:43 PM

Hey Chris!

Here's my do-it-yourself answer to that fancy Eastwood's tool... a knock-off of sorts as that's where I got the idea. I hunted around my woodworking shop with my Vernier caliper looking for materials with 2, 3 and 4 mm thicknesses, here's the result:

Nothing fancy, but effectively measures gaps up to 5 mm by combining the 2 & 3 mm blades. I intentionally went with soft materials like plastic and wood over the metal gauge design suggested in the factory manual because I didn't want to scrape fresh primer.

Hey Milt! I've gotta agree with you on the circumference welding suggestion being a case of doing it the hard way. I think you're right that cutting out the spot welds holding the old buckets in would be the first thing to try and hope there's good metal on that fender lip. My '74 911 is currently sporting some rather sophisticated JB Weld / window screen / fiberglass patches over some gaping holes in its headlight buckets and there's a pair of salvaged buckets sitting on my shelf waiting for the day I'm ready to repaint. Luckily the fender flanges look solid so leaving the fenders on the car to do the repair isn't just being cowardly! Not a repair I'm looking forward to!