Put SC flares back on, new problem

[GaryR]

In order for my car to be PCA Race G - Stock legal I had to put back my rear flare to stock so I bought some flares from a gentleman here.

When installing them, as my quarters had been "baseball bat flared", I went by the torsion tube holes for alignment. Once the front was right I simply squared up the rear and that's where they went (cut and but welded in). All was well until I put the wheel on and loaded the suspension (just with the weight of the car+me). There is about 2.5" of clearance in the front of the wheel but only about 1" in the rear. I rechecked the torsion tube and the hole in the quarter is perfectly aligned. I also noticed, once the wheel was in place, that the shape of the flare seems more squared off than I remember mine being originally, and not even square to the ground. None of this is readily apparent on the lift... and both sides are exactly the same.

The only other thing that may play a part is the new rear RUF bumper. It's "possible" IT is the wrong width and pulling in the quarter panels in that area.

Any ideas?

[rattlsnak]

gotta see the pic on this one..

[GaryR]

Got her outside and took her for a ride. With the lip pulled out to the outside (rear) edge of the tire I believe I won't see rubbing, at least didn't get any on the very bumpy road here..

The gap between the front edge of the quarter and the tire is 2.5", 6.5" from center of torsion tube to tire, top of flare is 12" from body to outside lip, torsion tube height id 10.25" and fender lip height is 25" at wheel center...

[Brother]

That's messed up.

[GaryR]

It's a race car, couldn't care less about looks if it functions but I believe you may be right Noah. I'll have to position the flare irregardless of the torsion center position with the wheel in compression (car's weight).

Thanks for the great insight and help Paul..

[Dueller]

Though you didn't give a straight on side shot, It appears the front of the flare is correctly mounted at the front but the rear seems to be pulled too far forward. I guess you could check by measuring the wheel well opening of an SC to see if its correct.

Were these steels flares? Weird.

[GaryR]

Originally posted by Dueller
Though you didn't give a straight on side shot, It appears the front of the flare is correctly mounted but the rear seems to be pulled too far forward. I guess you could check by measuring the wheel well opening of an SC to see if its correct.

Were these steels flares? Weird.

Yes, they were off a later car from what i'm told and should be the same as an SC (our host sells only one part for 78 on up to late 80's). The measurements are identical in front to 2 different SC race cars in my race shop for both front clearance, distance from torsion center to tire, height to top, and lip distance from inner well. The oddity is the arch position and rear clearance. Both sides are identical so at least it's consistent!

With the car on the lift and wheel in place it looked perfect due to the wheel travel downward. As everything was aligned I *assumed* all was well. Next time I will obviously place the panel with wheel position as the basis and damn the torsion tube..

[Zeke]

Well, I see what you did wrong, but it will be hard to explain. Basically, if you raised the rear part rotating upward using the torsion bar hole as the pivot point, the lip would rise over the rear part of the tire. That would put the lip more level to the ground plane and give the more equal clearance to the tire. You seem to have added too much of the donor fender under the rear points of the quarter window and on back. I know the contours may have suggested that was right, but obviously, it wasn't. Now, how that would have lined up with where the bumper goes, I don't know. I can't tell anymore from just one pic.

[Zeke]

This is the first pic I could find. Notice the shape of the wheel arch. It's somewhat squared as you describe, but level.

[GaryR]

Thanks Milt, I fully understand what you are saying, I just don't get how I could have rotated the donor flare up, keeping the torsion hole aligned. and had the rear (bent under part) not be way out of alignment with the original rear.. or are you saying I shouldn't have worried about it and just did what I had to (which in hindsight makes the most sense). Again, I made the mistake of assumption... THAT won't happen again!

Again, due to the way the wheel travels I *may* get away with this for track use if I keep the lip pulled out to the tire's outside plane and widen the rear bumper to hold it out there.. If it was a road car I would redo it and not look back but after a race or two I may have to anyway if you know what I mean...

[ossiblue]

+1 for Milt.

Looking at the picture after reading his response it does look "obvious" that the wheel well is rotated down in the back with the torsion hole as the piviot point. If you look at the relatively flat part of the arch (should be at the top of the wheel well), it should be parallel to the ground but is tilted down to where it almost touches the tire. Looks like a redo.

[Zeke]

As I said, it's hard to explain. I don't see how it all would have come together either, yet that seems to be the problem.

[GaryR]

Next one I know just what to do!!

[dtw]

You started tacking from the front, I'm willing to bet? As you went around, the flare started 'cupping' on its radius, and all the runout (is 'run-in' a word?) accumulated on the rearward half of the stamping. OR, it may have happened when it was cut from the donor and you didn't notice it during the install, but that's what it is. You can see it in your pic -- split the flare in half along a vertical axis. The half to the left starts a pronounced trip down that should be more horizontal.

This happened to me when I tried to roll the lips on a set of Turbo flares prior to installing them. When I rolled the lips, the entire flare cupped in and tightened the radius of the wheel well. Then when I went to install, they'd line up more or less but just didn't look right. We won't discuss the primitive methods I used to unload the stress from the metal...

[GaryR]

Originally posted by dtw
You started tacking from the front, I'm willing to bet?

You would lose that bet. Milt hit the nail square... It comes down to the fact that each car is different and I made a fatal error in fitment... I assumed. The placement in front is within 1/8" of OEM, torsion hole alignment is perfect, distance to front of tire is perfect. Width of inner wall to outer lip is perfect. The issue is the rear section. I should NOT have squared up the lip with the original part on the car, that is the problem. I *should* have pivoted the flare *BASED" on the torsion tube with the weight on the car and wheel in place until I had proper alignment (an inch higher in the rear most likely) and reformed/replaced the bumper mount lip as needed.

Live and learn.. I do all the work myself so a do-over is only more time....

[dtw]

Originally posted by GaryR
Live and learn.. I do all the work myself so a do-over is only more time....

Small comfort unfortunately. Yes the problem is definitely the rear section. Good luck on the do-over. Are you going to buy another flare or salvage this one?

[304065]

Gary, looks like you have the ultra-rare RLWB (really long wheelbase) version of the SC!

But seriously, this post is intended to provide encouragement to cut it off! Lime Rock is at the end of April, you will be fine!

Good luck!

[GaryR]

John, I shortened the trailing arm instead.. all set now!

[GaryR]

Originally posted by dtw
Small comfort unfortunately. Yes the problem is definitely the rear section. Good luck on the do-over. Are you going to buy another flare or salvage this one?

Good question Dave.. i'm thinking a long V-notch and some bondo...