Fender Mount Oil Cooler install on an early car...help needed

Britain Smith · 02-21-2007, 09:39 PM

I am finally getting some time to get back to work on my car. One of the issues I had/have is the fender mount oil cooler set-up. It is from an '87 Carrera and I am trying to mount it on my '69. My first attempt at this encountered a couple of issues: 1) in full lock, the tire hit the stone sheild, and 2) the two small oil lines that go between the hard lines and the cooler just would not fit. In terms of moving the cooler forward, I will have to do some cutting and welding which is no big deal. However, the two oil lines are still a really tight fit up on the top even with the cooler as far forward as it will go. Has anyone else had this issue? How tight do your oil lines fit up in the fender? Anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Britain

Britain Smith · 02-22-2007, 09:16 AM

No one to lend a hand on this one?

-Britain

Chuck Moreland · 02-22-2007, 09:46 AM

Britain, your line mounting looks fine. It is normal for the 2 short hoses to be a tight fit. They are short and not too flexy, so it takes a little muscle to get them in place.

Battery box cars like yours have clearance issues. Tire diameter and offset are factors that play in here. Smaller tires, less problem.

This is one reason the battery boxes are often removed when installing a fender mount cooler. The other is airflow.

If you keep the battery box you need to mount the cooler flush against the box, and then bend the stone guard in the center to give more room for the tire.

Jeff Higgins · 02-22-2007, 10:09 AM

I just installed one of Chuck's Widemouth cooler set-ups last spring. I went into the project with plans to cut the right side battery box out from the beginning. It sure opens up a lot of room, and allows for much better air flow to the cooler. Unless there is some overiding reason to keep it, like the car is a pretty much original S, I would consider cutting it out.

Britain Smith · 02-22-2007, 10:50 AM

Sorry I didn't mention above, the battery box is already cut out. The oil cooler is right against the back of the light bucket. The oil lines are a really tight fit, but I guess that is right.

Hey Chuck, did you have to modifiy the bracket on the bumper? It is hitting the fan on the cooler.

-Britain

DonDavis · DonDavis's Garage

Forgive me but it looks like the cooler is too upright. Should the bottom be tilted forward a little? I can't remember being able to see a fender cooler that easily.

Jeff Higgins · 02-22-2007, 11:02 AM

Just angle the bottom of the cooler forward a bit; it doesn't have to be absolutely vertical. The fan may make that a little harder to do than it was on my car; I don't run a fan so I have plenty of room. No bumper bracket mods were required wthout the fan in the way. It seems like it should be easy enough to fab some kind of bumper bracket that would clear the fan.

Speaking of which, I have not found a fan to be necessary on my car, for the way I use it. Mine is just a weekend/DE toy, and sees no use as a daily driver. Never sits in traffic or spends much time putting around town. I think having the fan out of the way, if there is sufficient air flow through the cooler, is probably better. Certainly lighter and less complicated. It doesn't exactly look like you are building a commuter car here, either. So, just a thought - you might not really need that fan. It would sure make moving that cooler out of the way much easier.

DW SD · 02-22-2007, 11:18 AM

Another option would be to use different, shorter custom lines.

I'm thinking you could use AN - 16 unions and then use -16 braided stainless. OR better yet, from mocal, you can buy an all in one -16 AN hose-end which threads onto the 30mm Porsche thread, but also fits the -16 hose like a normal AN hose end. then you wouldn't need the Unions. www.batinc.net sells the special AN to metric fittings.

Looking good!

I actually had issues where my wheel rubbed on one of the hard lines in the rear of the wheel well at 80% lock (one direction only). You might triple check that clearance, too, assuming your ride height is set.

Good luck,

Doug
Doug

Britain Smith · 02-22-2007, 12:02 PM

Thanks for all the help guys.

Do you think that AN-12 or AN-16 is closer to the internal size of the oil lines? The AN-12 would be much easier to work with in that tight area. I will revist the placement of the cooler again this evening. I would like to keep the fan on the cooler if I can, we shall see what I will have to cut to get it to fit.

-Britain

Chuck Moreland · 02-22-2007, 12:10 PM

I would use the stock 30mm hoses, and just tilt the bottom of the cooler forward.

DW SD · 02-22-2007, 01:49 PM

If you were giong to use AN lines, I'd go with -16. They are at or larger than the factory, ID. Plenty of sources suggest -12 is not a good solution as it is a bottleneck.

Can you "massage" the rear of the headlight bucket? I don't mean with a big hammer cave man style, but, maybe you can make a bit more clearance? Some open it up for airflow at the track, so cutting a bit out may work.

Not sure why you have a somewhat unique clearance issue. I've only worked on my car, though, so I don't have exprience with dozens.
Doug

Britain Smith · 02-22-2007, 02:14 PM

One of the issues that I see could be causing the problem is the way the lines come up into the fender area (behind the front tire). I guess that early cars were supposed to have the lines feed through the door jam and there are two indentions in the sheetmetal that stick out (see in my picture above) where I would assume that holes are supposed to be drilled for the lines to come through. However, on my set-up the lines are pressed against this area and are about and inch out due to those stamped areas. That may be where I am having my issues.

-Britain

Britain Smith · 02-22-2007, 02:26 PM

I think this is the source of the issue. Check out my '69 body compared to Chuck's car. The door jamb panel is clearly different. His has a recess for the oil lines where as mine has these two cut-outs that stick out. Any suggestions for a freshly painted car? I guess I could cut them.

-Britain

Britain Smith · 02-22-2007, 06:12 PM

Does anyone know if there are differences in this area between the years?

-Britain

ossiblue · 02-23-2007, 08:06 AM

Britain,

I think you may have found the answer. I have noticed that some hard lines do not make the nearly 90 degree turn at the top of the fender well--they actually angle forward with two gradual bends, one about where your clamp is, and another near the top of the fender well. These may have been early hard lines--I don't know, but I do know someone on the board has them because I saw them on the car. Check threads regarding installation of hard lines.

Larry

Britain Smith · 02-23-2007, 08:24 AM

Well, I went back through everything last night to try to determine where I could get another inch or two. I ended up relocating the clamp for the hardlines coming up inside the fender well and cutting off and reloating the bracket on the back of the headlight bucket. I will have to fab up a new bottom bracket and do something about the bumper bracket because it interfers with the Carrera fan. Here is a picture of the back of the fender well, I will have to work on the front tonight and post some pictures later.

I would love to see this area on other early cars with late model coolers in the fender.

-Britain

DW SD · 02-23-2007, 08:29 AM

I think you found the issue.

In fact, my '71 may have the same issue. It is likely manifesting in a different way. I was scratching my head about the clearance at the tire - this may explain it?

I didn't explore this in any detail, but I know I have a clearance issue between the oil line and the right front tire. I worked very hard to move the oil lines rearward as much as possible. The issue seems to be resolved, but it took some strategic installation of adel clamps to keep the lines in place. I'm running a front mounted cooler, so I never experienced any issue with the short lines to the Carrera cooler.

With AN, you can buy the 45 degree, 22.5 degree, etc. bent ends, which may help you get the cooler outlets and hard line outlets aligned.

Good luck,

Doug

Britain Smith · 02-23-2007, 08:34 AM

I couldn't imaging having issues at the back of the front fender, there seems to be ample room there.

Now the right rear fender is another story.

-Britain

DW SD · 02-23-2007, 08:52 AM

I have wide wheels and tires and my a - arms are lengthed to improve. My fronts are 255 on 17", so think the diameter may be a bit larger than some.
My issue is at 80% lock to the left.

Doug

Britain Smith · 02-24-2007, 08:50 PM

Well, I spent most of the day today cutting up my nicely painted car and getting the fender mount cooler to fit correctly. I ended up cutting out all the brackets that I had previously made and started over from stratch. I made the bottom bracket for the cooler mount double as the bumper bracket and with the cooler mounted everything is very tight.

This is what I ended up with, I ran out of time to mount the cooler back again and take some more pictures, but I will when I get back into town and post them for ya.

Thanks for all the help.

-Britain