which is the best path to run wire from kick panel to engine area?

[rnln]

I need to run a wire from the kick panel to the engine area. Can I run it under the middle console, through the gearing area? Look from underneath the car, I saw a small hole right in front of the tranny. Does this lead to the gear and to the pedals area? Can I push a wire through this hole, pass the gear shfiter and to the gas pedal?
Thanks.

[oldE]

You should have no trouble running a wire through the tunnel if you remove the access plate in the rear and the shifter.
My biggest concern would be securing the wire to the side of the tunnel to prevent it from catching on shift rod, park brake cables, etc..

Les

[87 clubsport]

go from driver side firewall ( open the rear speaker panel) you will see a hole to engine room, run a wire through the hole and hide it to the doorsill,all inside the cockpit,so you do not worry catch anything underneath

[steve911]

+1 what 87 clubsport says.
Remove the rear parcel shelf and you will see the hole where the rear defroster/defogger wires go into the engine compartment. Very base of the rear window - driver's side.

[Yellowbird RS]

Originally posted by 87 clubsport
go from driver side firewall ( open the rear speaker panel) you will see a hole to engine room, run a wire through the hole and hide it to the doorsill,all inside the cockpit,so you do not worry catch anything underneath

yes! just like the rear window defog wire

[911pcars]

If you route wire(s) through the center tunnel, I would put an insulated sleeve around it to prevent incidental chafing with moving parts inside (e.g. shift mechanism, shift tube, emergency brake cables, throttle linkage, etc.). You don't want a short circuit in this location.

I use a slightly oversize length of HD shrink tube to protect the wire(s). It also lends some rigidity to the wire when its routed through the desired path and avoids a wire snaking in and around other cables, harnesses and tubes.

Sherwood

[rnln]

Thanks guys for info, so quick.
Mine is a convertible, no rear window defog. Will I still have the hole through the firewall?

[87 clubsport]

yes

[rnln]

87 clubsport,
That means if I look up from the engine bay, I will also see that hole at the top panel? Just went out and tried but could fine it.
Note: I already got rid of the engine sound pad.

Also, from the underneath, which is the best way to route the wire up to the engine bay?
I try to route a wire from the starter ignition to the dash. Looked from underneath the engine, I don't find much space and don't see any OEM wire run between top and bottom engine. I affraid if I push the wire through any edges between chassis and engine, when the car run, the wire my get jammed or cut.
Thanks in advance.

[Mysterytrain]

The tunnel is the logical place for a wire. Actually, there are wires in the tunnel!! you can use wire ties and piggy back to those. What is the wire for?
Quick and dirty..under the carpet to the area below the back seats and then drill a hole an inch or so up from the floor.

[rnln]

Below engine: the wire I am thinking is for the starter ignition, trying to find the problem's source on my starter.
Top engine bay: Another wire is for the condensor fan.
zip/bag the wire with other in the tunnel is hard for me since how to I get my hands in there.
Drill a small hole on the floor, good. But will I need to worry about rust?
Thanks.

[911pcars]

Originally posted by rnln
Below engine: the wire I am thinking is for the starter ignition, trying to find the problem's source on my starter.
Top engine bay: Another wire is for the condensor fan.
zip/bag the wire with other in the tunnel is hard for me since how to I get my hands in there.
Drill a small hole on the floor, good. But will I need to worry about rust?
Thanks.

What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to route another starter switch wire? Determine if the existing wire is okay first.

The yellow wire from the ign. switch energizes the starter solenoid. To check the integrity, connect voltmeter leads to both ends of the wire. Your're going to measure the voltage drop created by this section of the circuit.

You'll need some length of extra wire to extend the test leads. One end clips onto the yellow wire abd terminal at the ignition switch. The other test lead goes to the end of the yellow wire at the solenoid terminal. Crank the engine and read the voltage drop. It should be less than .1 volt or so. Higher numbers represent the amount of voltage loss due to loose, dirty connections, partial short, missing conductors (via pinched wire).

In your initial post, you should describe what you're trying to do and why. Lots of answers for routing wire, but that may not be the solution to the issues you have.

Sherwood

[rnln]

I have the starting problem. Sometimes, it seem like nothing going on when I twist the key. The batery is fine (went through 3 bateries, silly me), all windows and everything work fine when it happen.

What I wanted to do to the starter is to connect one end to the starter, where to yellow wire connected to. The other end, I lead to inside the cabin at the dash. When it happen, I can measure the voltage while sitting in the car. What I am thinking is the yellow wire might get cut off or damage somewhere between the ignition key to the starter. In the future, if I want to play with the push start, I can reuse this wire too.

I can simply lead the wire to the engine cabin but I affraid the engine movement while driving can jammed or cut the wire and it can create big problem.

[911pcars]

Originally posted by rnln
I have the starting problem. Sometimes, it seem like nothing going on when I twist the key. The batery is fine (went through 3 bateries, silly me), all windows and everything work fine when it happen.

What I wanted to do to the starter is to connect one end to the starter, where to yellow wire connected to. The other end, I lead to inside the cabin at the dash. When it happen, I can measure the voltage while sitting in the car. What I am thinking is the yellow wire might get cut off or damage somewhere between the ignition key to the starter. In the future, if I want to play with the push start, I can reuse this wire too.

I can simply lead the wire to the engine cabin but I affraid the engine movement while driving can jammed or cut the wire and it can create big problem.

Perform easy diagnosis first. It's easier. No start problems are usually a ground problem or loose, dirty connections to/from the battery. Also check the ground strap on the gearbox mount bar.

The yellow ignition wire that energizes the solenoid only works during cranking, so you don't have to drive the car to check it. See my previous post. In lieu of or in addition to checking the voltage drop in this portion of the circuit, you can also connect the VM to the solenoid terminal and verify there is source voltage. You should see >9 volts with the starter cranking. With the wire disconnected from the solenoid, you should measure source voltage (about the same as measured at the battery).

If you want to monitor the solenoid source voltage during your normal drive (park on slope just in case), you can route a wire from your VM (pos lead) into the tunnel access opening and through the existing grommet at the end of the tunnel. Once through, route the wire along the existing harness, then connect to the yellow wire terminal on the starter. Obtain a piggyback male terminal connector so the existing yellow wire and your test wire can both connect to the same location. Install temporarily lock ties to secure the test wire to the existing harness.

Here's a pic of my tunnel, but with a relay I use with a remote switch that extends the life of my early NLA ignition switch.



Hope this helps,
Sherwood

[rnln]

911pcars,
Thanks for spending time on the write up.

My plan is not exactly as monitoring the voltage while driving. The problem I have is on and off so when it happen, I am on the road and can't tell if the voltage on the yellow wire come all the way to the starter. The + big wire at the starter from batery and the ground wires are checked/clean and secured but sometimes it still hapen, especially when it's hot. For almost 1/2 year, when it's cold, it never happen. My though is there are 2 posibilities. Eitehr when it's hot, the stater jammed or some devices somewhere (a relay maybe) got stauck and the yellow wire doesn't have enough voltage.
So my plan is getting the voltage on the yellow wire at the starter up to the cabin so that when it happen, I can measure the voltage right at that time. If there is enough voltage feed, I know the stater is the problem maker. If there is not enough voltage, then the problem is somewhere between the key to the stater.
See my point?
Just went out to make sure and found out that when I crank the key, car start, I got 10+v (less than 11v) on the yellow wire at the key. I measured it right behind the key before the round pug plugs into the dash.

On the relay you added, let me make sure if I understand what you do.
The ywllow used to feed right deirectly into the stater, now you are using it to feed the relay as a signal wire. You get the 12v source directly from the batery and this wire go to the starter. Is that what you do?
Why don't you get the source from the big batery source wire right at the starter? What I am thinking is as you use a screw driver you jump between 2 poles at the batery.

[911pcars]

"On the relay you added, let me make sure if I understand what you do.
The ywllow used to feed right deirectly into the stater, now you are using it to feed the relay as a signal wire. You get the 12v source directly from the batery and this wire go to the starter. Is that what you do?
Why don't you get the source from the big batery source wire right at the starter? What I am thinking is as you use a screw driver you jump between 2 poles at the batery."

You're correct. I am sourcing 12 volts from the battery terminal on the starter solenoid.

"Just went out to make sure and found out that when I crank the key, car start, I got 10+v (less than 11v) on the yellow wire at the key. I measured it right behind the key before the round pug plugs into the dash."

If you measured 10+ volts on the yellow wire at the ign. switch, you should measure almost the same voltage at the yellow wire at the starter solenoid. Any appreciable difference might decrease available voltage to energize the solenoid - not typical, but it could happen.

Some armatures (the rotating part inside the motor) have been known to be a tight fit. If there's a close fit when cold, it heats up and expands during engine operation. If the expansion is sufficient, it will drag when called upon to crank.

Try this technique. Next time the starter fails to crank, spray some water from a squirt bottle onto the starter housing to reduce the temp., then try to crank again.

Or it could be a solenoid or starter motor assembly past its prime. Don't forget to check the ground connections.

Sherwood

[RoninLB]

Sherwood's relay makes the best sense without getting into more involved electrics imo.

If you're going to run a new solenoid wire I found double wall shrink tubing that finishes off to look like the harder Porsche plastic wire loom cover. It's stronger than it looks and it's very close to a factory look.

these pics is when the double wall shrink is brand new. The stock msw coil wires is another comparison. On the yellow wire the shrink could be a tight fit or a loose fit mimicking factory.





My tilton solenoid is a very close fit. I found a starter/generator marine/truck rebuilder that will shave as much as I want from the inside of the solenoid case, but first i want to try a new yellow. I also have a 5 wire, 14ga loom ++ that i want to run in the tunnel. Another pelicanhead ran 3/4" conduit that i haven't figured out how he did it.

I know it's the stock solenoid wiring that may give me a hot start turning problem. If i crawl under there i can jump it. That's all w/ new starter sw, clean 14pin connector and clean solenoid connector. My stock yellow seems less than 14ga and old. In lew of installing serious engine compartment to dash wiring I installed a momentary start button in the engine compartment.

[rnln]

911pcars,
"spray some water from a squirt bottle onto the starter housing to reduce the temp"
good idea, but I think this would work on other car, not P car since I don't think there is no way to access to the starter on our car... or if there is but I don't know yet?
Thanks for the info Sherwood.

RoninLB,
If it start when you jump the starter, then it's definitely somewhere between the front to the starter, not the starter itself.

Thanks guys. I have enough info to get downthere tomorrow.

[buster73]

Depending on what options your car has installed, there might be plenty of unused wires in your wiring loom you could use, some of which are running from the dashboard to the engine bay. For example I used a wire for the heated rear window (which I do not use on my car) to connect an additional oil pressure warning light. You have to check your wiring diagram and find the right position how to access the wires. Should be good practice to mark the cable clearly on both ends and probably include a note with the cars manual to help a potential future owner understand what has been changed.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by rnln
RoninLB,
If it start when you jump the starter, then it's definitely somewhere between the front to the starter, not the starter itself.

I was confusing again.


I didn't mean to make it seem that i was changing parts to fix the problem. I change elec parts when they are old and "while you're in there". I figure an ignition switch is good for 100k mi in reliable condition, I figure the 14pin plug is close to routine maintenance, and i also figure that the an old 14 or 15ga yellow wire is border line carrying solenoid draw amps from when it's cool. When the sol is hot it'll draw more amps. In general the convoluted path for the old small yellow wire sucks. At every connection along the way is a voltage drop even when brand new and clean.

The sol jump is just to confirm that the sol will operate when fed enough current [and to start the engine].


as i wrote before Sherwood's relay is the easiest most reliable way to modify the solenoid feed without disturbing factory wiring.

If a 911 hasn't had a solenoid hot start problem yet it's only a matter of time and circumstance imo.