SWB 911R...the beginning
 

I bought a SWB car to create a 911R clone last weekend. After posting my dissappointing post sale rust findings....and generating both criticism and sympathy, the time came for actually digging in. I will try to remember to have a camera available and actually use it to chronicle the build.

For the record, I am starting with a low mile 1966 912.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178500893.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178500907.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178500984.jpg

Day one...disassemble. I removed the doors, hood, lid, glass and interior. I assessed the damage as I went along. I will need to replace full floor, outer rockers and full suspension pan, rear seat buckets as well as rust specific areas as encountered. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178501199.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178501239.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178501260.jpg

Day two...prepare for sand blasting. I removed the fenders, front and rear bumpers and trannie to start. Luckily the trannie ended up being an aluminum cased 5 spd 902/1 with favorable gears. I removed the gas tank and found rust in the "steering hump" cover at the right rear bolt...more rust repair. I removed the electrics up front and evaluated the rust on the lower left front inner fender wall. More metal to be fabricated. Front bulkhead has damage, but probably can be saved.

Removed all instruments and dash pieces as well as pedal cluster. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178501699.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178501748.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178501770.jpg

Removed all electrics from engine compartment and soundproofing. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178501864.jpg

Took the Charlie bars out and determined that for the most part, the inner fenders were in good shape http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178501987.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178502008.jpg

Headliner , mirror, visors, interior lights removed http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178502071.jpg

Pedal cluster removed for sandblasting and rebushing as well as shifter. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178502240.jpg

End of Day two, car is stripped and ready for blasting. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178502307.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178502329.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178502349.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178502376.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178502407.jpg

I will most likely use fiberglass for the fenders, hood, rear lid and bumpers. The front bumper looks pretty cool with the periond correct hella fog/driving lights which I will probably put up for sale. I will probably offer the hood, rear lid, fenders and bumpers up for sale when I determine that satisfactory fiberglass R replacements are available...as well as the seats, rear glass, quarter windows etc.

I have just purchased a 2.7 with webers for the car...and will probably use stock heat exchangers with a sport exhaust and MSD. I plan to powder coat the basic suspension and run 22-26mm tbars . I haven't decided whether or not to run the original charlie bars, or update the sway bars.

Next installation will be when he (unamed at the moment) is back from the media blasting and the bad metal goes, and the good metal gets welded in.

See ya

Speedo

It certainly looks like you have your work cut out for you.... GOOD LUCK!!

Holy rusted floors, Batman.

Someone had to say it.

Good luck, looks like one serious project.

I wanna see this in person...

when you dry out up there again, (I see that snow in the background) let me know and I can zoom up.

Ferg SmileWavy

Speedo,

Dude, you've got a serious project on your hands. Looking forward to following your progress...IMHO, there needs to be more 911R clones.

It's great to see you save this car, looking forward to seeing more.

I agree with RATTLSNAK that you have your hands full but it will pay off when its done. Good luck!

BTW, its a project that I thought about. :D

In a way the missing floors are good - you can weld in lighter steel or rivet in Al.

Are you planning to stiffen the chassis at all? Seam welding, more spot welding - extra gussets & so forth?

I'm told a push/pull system with a shop vac on one end & compressed air jets on the other end of all enclosed spaces and tubes works well for removing the excess media.

Looking forward to watching this evolve!

I'm always amazed at how quickly you turn these things around. Always such an inspiration to watch you!

replacement sheet metal on the way.
 

I also sourced the 911 engine mounts locally so they will be cleaned up and installed after the 912 mounts are removed. I have also determined that the cover for the front steering cavity "hump"...right rear mounting point which is spot welded to the forward side of the smugglers box is rusted. I have sourced a replacement and will clean up to reweld. It has seemed that this is a common point to rust out when the smugglers box doesn't drain correctly. I could use a rotisserie for this....but don't have one . I don't like welding "up".

I will post pics of the engine mount conversion.

Car is scheduled to meet the sandblaster Wednesday.

Sheet metal will arrive about the same time.

The 2.7 motor and webers will arrive shortly thereafter.

I have a lot of welding in front of me...no big deal. I look forward to having clean fresh pans to work with.

I am tempted to go ahead and order my fiberglass but I don't have the room.

Still looking for 26-27mm rear torsion bars.:)

that's gonna be a lotta work...
good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

hmmm, I was going to tear out the back seats to see if my water leak caused any rust damage. ........

maybe, I'll be smart and just drive until I sell it ....

I have the bad feeling once those back seats come out, ALL bolts will come off too .... !!!!! .........................

It's a sad day when you see a 911 on car stands and the only thing in the picture you lusting after is the stands.

That is a big undertaking, I applaud your energy and commitment.

I did a similar rebuild (not quite that bad). My only regret was not acid dipping or sand blasting the entire car to bare metal. Are you planning to do that?

dude you've got balls I will give you that this is a serious project. good luck and keep the progress reports coming please.

Provided the progress is steady I nominate this thread for a sticky note at the top of the B.B.

some of these ideas on structural reinforcement might come in handy

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/259557-structural-reinforcement-post3195258.html#post3195258

I'd say Porsche owes you an award for saving their car...

Don't put any fiberglass in the front at least. Thats just where you want the weight, no need to go lighter there. Put all the glass in the rear. I would go with an aluminum tag panel and decklid and thats it. The front with less weight would just make a drag car.

911R Clone
 

I have two race cars....already

This one will be for the street. As necessary, I will strengthen the chassis, but not at the expense of weight....or never to be unnecessarily needed in a street car. The early R's had to put 25+ lbs weight in the front bumper to offset the weight in the rear. It would be stupid to lighten the front using fiberglass...only to have to add it back for better weight distribution. If I run a centerfill tank, I will probably also keep the metal front hood. It will allow me to use a "crush" gasket at the filler to keep water out vs using a honeycomb fiberglass hood that might develop stress cracks.

Yes the car will be media blasted.

I spent a couple hours today and "relieved " the 911 engine mounts from their SC longitudinals from which they had been cut...and almost finished the removal of the 912 mounts and corner bracing. I will post pics tomorrow. The 911 mounts fit perfectly. I will weld them up before sandblasting.

Also cleaned up the scavenged mounts for the suspension cover that mounts to the lower front of the smugglers box. I decided not to separate the mount from the surrounding steel until I determine how much of the local area is bad.

Leaning towards fabricating a rotisserie for certain aspects of the underside.

I hope that the 2.7 with webers, SSI and a sport exhaust will approximate the hp of the early 911S, and not penalize the car for weight. I have a 911 oil tank that I plan to install in the right rear fender unless I decide to move it forward and run the oil lines in the longitudinal while they are open as I do the floor pan...we'll see. I anticipate (based on the recent 71 RMVR vintage racer I built 1850lbs) that this will be close to 1950 lbs without a cage...so the power to weight will be under the 67 911S, but over the 911R. I do however have that set of Elgin S plus cams (GE 60s) that I could use...first thing first.

Hey guys, this as always is a labor of love/insanity...don't need any other pressure to get the car done. I'll do it at my own pace...coincident as always with wife/life kids and the other stuff that is almost as important as our fetish for these cars. Yes I tend to get them done quickly, but give me the luxury of deciding the route to take as the car evolves...vs the stress of just getting the car done. Thanks for the attention....T minus 3 (days)to sand blasting.

For the record...I will be selling decent ...

Front bumper with foglight cut outs (and foglights Hella 128s)
left and right front fenders with period correct headlights
complete 5 gauge green faced instuments
center valence
rear bumpers
seats
rear window
rear quarter windows
gas tank
steel wheels with hubcaps
steering wheel
gas tank

At the appropriate time these will all be listed as for sale on the correct forum;)

Looks like a great project! :)

If you are now not going to use fiberglass fenders then why are you ditching the steel ones? I think you have an amazing project and you should definetly build it at your own pace.

Day two and a half....the sex change
 

I sourced some 911 rear engine mounts locally which had been cut from an unfortunate race car...torched out actuallyhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114233.jpg
I drilled out the spot welds and primed them with weld through primer.

I then needed to tackle the removal of the 912 mount and corner gussets http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114415.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114435.jpg

Once these were removed http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114544.jpg

And the area cleaned up and primed... the 911 mounts were fited..http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114677.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114696.jpg

Here is the completed result http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114749.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114769.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114798.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179114830.jpg

I need to disassemble the doors a little further to get ready for media blasting ....took a short break this afternoon to celebrate Mothers Day....and assemble two short block 2.2s with a buddy....Mom would have been proud.

I tend to keep the parts I need for the current project...and get rid of what is not necessary. I do plan to use fiberglass front fenders. I have a great source for fenders that I have used on my 3.2 RS clone, 76 DE track car a, my 71 ST vintage clone, and this car too. I do tend to regret letting parts go that I may need later on...it's a space thing. Except for my weber carb collection. I just don't like to keep tons of parts on hand...which is why a lot of the SWB parts of the car will go away when the fiberglass arives.

great project...keep up the good work. :)

Are the SWB fenders shorter than the stock ones? Are they tough to source?

SWB fenders...
 

Several differences....zero fender lips, different horngrill and turn signal mounts, and how they run the electrics out of the inner fender wall through a support tube to the bottom of the headlight bucket. They are just a couple years ahead of the LWB cars in terms of the "race to rust". These are in pretty good shape actually...I just need the fiberglass to get the "R" thing going with the turn signal delete.

Doors disassembled and gutted. Considering deleting the chrome on the car and going in the direction of black chrome. That would alllow me to still keep the little corner window vents on the doors that open...we'll see. The dang doors are so freak'in heavy to start with....I may need to nix the regulators and use the R window "pull straps"....with plexiglass windows.

Don't lose luxury for weight reduction. Keep the windows. Don't ditch trim, it adds beauty. When you say black chrome I assume you mean a dark nickle plating. Although it may seem cool at first, I think just aged or cleaned up chrome will give the car a better look.

Nice job on the engine mounts. I admire the tenacity to take on the project -- and have a new respect taking on a project of my own with its share of rust issues.

I've got a SC shell just sitting here. If there are particular body parts you could use (like engine mounts), let me know. I'd be happy to send them your way. Otherwise, it's just going to the recycler when I finish my ST project.

Here is some wt. data I've collected that can help you make your weighty decisions.

http://www.penaltykicker.com/911/data/

A fellow Pelican was nice enough to host it. IIRC, the window regulator and window glass wts. are in there.

I would not go to FG or CF doors on a street car.

First thing I'd do is to put in a Lexan rear window to save wt.

Agreed, amazing job so far.

SWB 911R Slantnose
 

Actually, he is packed up ready to go to the sandblaster. etchttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179373691.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179373770.jpg

I wanted to disassemble some smaller parts to include in the blasting...pedal cluster, engine mount, pulley housing, engine sheet metal, lid hinges...etc

I am definitely going to keep the doors. The fenders are getting blasted to facilitate resale, and the hood will be blasted (verrrry carefully) just in case I don't go fiberglass. I am cogitating on doing a 72 oil tank to move weight forward. I might do something dramatic and move it way forward to the front trunk and run the lines through the longitudinals as they will be open when I replace the floors...haven't decided.

I have instructed the media blaster to please leave me some metal to work with. I'm sure there will be some surprises when the car comes back....some excellent bondo work that was uncovered....maybe fiberglass hiding more oxcidation. It will be a same day job, so I will get the car back for the weekend. I can't wait to start drilling out thousands of spot welds.

Restoration Hardware is backordered on right side outer rockers...so if anyone has a right side they are not going to use, let me know. You would save me a few weeks of waiting.:D

TWork...I may nibble a couple things off that SC tub before it goes to join God...
 

You have a PM....get yer sawzall out....

T Work...I have a chunk of passenger door jam I need, so maybe I could tack something on to Lars' order. :)

I'm really looking forward to your next installment!

Re: Day two and a half....the sex change
 

Can you tell me which spot weld cutter you're using and where you get them? I'm prepping to drill out my impact bumper mounts on my '74, and although Harbor Freight is the only local retailer that stocks them, I wouldn't mind picking up some higher quality ones from Eastwood or elsewhere.

Also, I've always been curious how you align the 911 engine mount corners in a 912 chassis so that they are precisely aligned. Is it easier than I think, or do you have to do a lot of measuring to make sure the mounts will center the motor correctly?

Thanks!

spot weld drill bits
 

Pieter,
You are right...the spot weld drill bits do "hang up" and break and I have the same problem wherever I buy them. I use the ones ordered from our host as well as the ones from other retailers. I consider them to be designed obsolescence. I also use high quality cobalt bits. I think the key with the spot weld bits to be slow speed and with the harder bits...high speed. There is no easy way.

I will pick up the lexan for the side
and rear windows tomorrow. I need to decide if I will go with the quarter -opening windows, or solid windows. Really no sense to keep the opening windows in a car that has no rear seats. The key to remember here is simple is light.
I drop the car off at the sand/media blaster tomorrow at 7:00 AM and pick up at 1:00 PM....naw, I don't need to go to work...I'm visualizing myself as a trust-funder....not!

I have decided to build a rotisserie to work on the underside of the car. Next installment will represent how I plan to hold the car upside-down while working on the floor. It will also make the replacement of the control arm bushings, and front A arm bushings a heck of a lot easier. Not to mention the access to the rusted area for the steering rack cover. ...in front of the smugglers box. Anybody in the Denver area need a rotisserie when I'm done?

Hint...Chinese steel is cheaper than ours...

Still needing right side outer rocker and 27 mm tbars

Sorry, I forgot...the corners
 

The corners do require some attention when lining up the 911 engine mounts. But they are pretty basic. Email me off thread and I will help you. The hardest part is removing the 912 mounts and existing corner bracing...but if you like sparks....it is not so bad.

Amen to that. I don't care what you do to it, I'm just glad you're saving it! Looking forward to progress updates.

SmileWavy

Really looking forward to how this turns out Speedo - it's something I've wanted to do for a while, but scrappy swb cars are hard to come by over here in Oz.

Day three...dragged the car down to the sandblaster at 6:00 am
 

And picked it up at noon. Very reasonable price...and they said I could keep the media that is stored inside the car.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179717529.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179717559.jpg


Surprises...

1) some body work on the left side quarter panel...will need to be removed and taken down to bare metal before the LWB flares get added
2) rear shelf more "perforated" than previously thought...just will require a larger patch
3) rockers are damaged, but can be repaired vs replaced...I had anticipated replacing both sides.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179717716.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179717743.jpg
4) jack points solid on both sides
5) fender wings in decent shape...right side requires small patch.
6) front bonnet in decent shape
7) rear seat buckets more perforated than estimated...both will need to be replaced
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179717611.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179717633.jpg

8) rust holes in left rear quarter below window will require patching http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179717978.jpg
9) rear window lower corners are solid
10) doors are in great shape
11) pedal cluster area on pan was only oxcidized...not rusted

I threw a bunch of extra small parts at the blaster...pedals cluster, suspension pan cover, engine mounts and pulley housing, alternator strap, engine tin etc

Moving along quickly, looking good. Pretty cool that you get the keep media, I'd ebay it. ;-)

Day four
 

Baby steps...decided to start on small tasks and get some traction. Left rear quarter need some help, so I cut a larger area out around the rust
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179718236.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179718275.jpg
sized in replacement steel and shaped to fit
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179718334.jpg
and welded in and ground the excess off http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179718386.jpg

then found out that I was out of welding wire on my mig.

Ok...I can now dive in to the spot welds on the front of the car. The front drip sill was not looking great, but I have ordered a replacement piece so it was first to go
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179718533.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179718551.jpg

All cleaned up and ready for zinc and the new piece to be welded in place.

I hadn't planned on diving into the removal of the front suspension pan, but as it too was en route, and I couldn't weld anything else today....lets drill out 300 spot welds. I have another couple of hours of prep, but the pan is 85% drilled out and ready to be cleaned up and prepped for replacement. I will have some peripheral steel to replace next to the pan, but not too much. To my surprise, this area had a botched repair done at some earlier time that I uncovered while drilling out the welds on the lower drivers side.... what a hack job. The good news is that the inner fenders are in good shape. I will need to refabricate the battery ledge after I get the suspension pan welded in place http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179718948.jpg

I realize the last picture looks pretty gnarly with missing metal, rust and power tools....hey, it's a project.

I was supposed to get my hybrid rotisserie going, but I was having too much fun breathing burning undercoating , and tatooing my arms with molten metal flying off my grinding disc. I now have three grinders set up, each with a different application...a grinding wheel, a wire cup , and a braided wire wheel . Thank goodness for $14.99 grinders at Harbour Freight.