1987 carrera track car help?

[mark4ton]

hello. i have a 1987 carrera and i want to do some stuff to it. i figured its already fast enough. i don't need it any faster at the moment. so i want to get all i can do to improve the handling on it. so i guess thats making it into a track car? the car is completely stock right now. nothing done to it. i just hit 100k today. bought it with 92k.. after i get the tune up. i want to do the handling upgrades, and i don't know where to start. i wanna get brembo brakes, suspension, all the bars(sways, strut, and whatever else...) things that would make it handle like crazy. so please let me know, give me some inputs on what you guys think, where should i start, what parts are better then others, better for the money, let me know what you guys think! thanks.

[ChrisBennet]

Mark,
Welcome to the board. What a beautiful picture.
Try some autocrossing and Drivers Ed (track days with the Porsche club) and see how you feel about the handling. You'd be surprised.
-Chris

[mark4ton]

oh man. i think Ive noticed the great handling, but Imagine if i did even more to it how great it would handle then. in the corners it kinda gets a bit of bump steer, which i know weltmeister has a cheap fix for that, but its for lowered ones. so I'm thinking bilstein shocks, then the camber-meister strut and the bump steer kit.

[thinkfloyd14]

beautiful picture, what camera is that?

[rfn026]

Don't do anything until you do at least 3 track days. The most productive improvement, and the least expensive, is the driver. Once you get the driver squared away then you can start on the car.

At that point tires will give you the biggest improvement for the money spent.

Richard

[drsimonwong]

Check out Elephant Racing's suspension packages.

http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/diagram/911suspensiondiagram.htm

Simon

[mark4ton]

Originally posted by drsimonwong
Check out Elephant Racing's suspension packages.

http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/diagram/911suspensiondiagram.htm

Simon

nice! this is the kinda stuff i wanna see fellas. THANKS SIMON! oh, and the camera is a canon 30d.

[cbeers]

Mark,

You can't go wrong with the ER stuff, my car is full of those bits. However, I would also want to encourage you to drive the heck out of that car and then get going on suspension.

Unless money is no object of course


These cars are quite capable, even old ones in stock trim. I bet a better driver could jump into your car and put up better times. Maybe not, but I'd bet they could.

On mine, I did the spring plate bushings first since they were toast and you could feel the squirm in the turns. I went about two more years with some track and AX time in there before taking on the rest of the suspension. Great project to DIY. Here is the thread where I posted a brief summary. There are TONS of excellent threads in the archives which I printed out and used as guides along with my Bentley and 101 Projects books.
Suspension Work Recap.....



-Chris

[PatrickB]

+1 for Simon's suggestion...

New strut's -Biltstein or Koni's is a good start.
You'll notice HUGE difference right there.
Good suggestion to do a few DE's first, then add one upgrade at a time!
Wheel's & tires are huge! I went to 8&9x16 Fuchs with Hankook RS2's.
Then I did the Elephant Racing Adjustable front Sway Bar. HUGE difference again! Torsion Bar upgrades are a good idea as well... That's my next upgrade..
I wouldn't worry so much about brakes just yet... I just upgraded to Pagid Orange pads with the stock sized but vented rotors with braided stainless lines & motul brake fluid and 993 vents to the rotors. My biggest problem used to be fade. Unless you have HUGE R compound rubber, the Brembo's are a waste IMHO!.

[don911]

Here's my 87 street/track suspension set up.

930 brakes/pagid orange pads
22mm F, 30mm R hollow torsion bars
RSR struts / shocks valved to match tbars. spindles raised 19mm
Smart Racing #27 adjustable sway bars
Elephant Racing polybronze bushings + rear monoballs
Elephant bump steer kit
Wevo upper strut mount monoballs/carbon strut brace
Turbo tie rods
16" fuchs ; 951 8s, 911 9s 225/245 RA1 tires

[PatrickB]

Thanks Don!


Did the upper strut monoballs roughen the hell out of your street ride? I've kind of leaned away from doing that, as many have told me that would happen... Same for the rear monoball set up...
Just curious!

[ZOA NOM]

I would suggest doing several DE's and then let an instructor take the wheel for a few laps. You will find that you can save a ton of money by making yourself faster before you buy goodies that will probably only improve your chances of biting yourself. I see guys in bone stock P-cars running rings around guys with more money than talent all the time. The point I'm making is that your car is way beyond your ability as is (unless you are already a seasoned P-car driver, which would conflict with the nature of your post). You will benefit greatly from progressing through it's limit at your pace, not compensating for your inexperience with spendy parts.

[don911]

Patrick,
I didn't notice any change in ride quality becuase of the monoballs.

[PatrickB]

+1 Zoanas!

Very well said!

I've got about 6 DE's under my belt at Big Willow.

Only changes to my car have been mentioned above, with the exception of
Bilsteins about 5 years back... My driving ability improves each time, but I still have a LONG way to go before reaching the true limitations of my current set up!!!

[rusnak]

Great picture, beautiful 911.

I did notice that it's on the street though, not on the track.

I'd suggest moderation because if you switch to monoballs in the shock mounts, steering rods, suspension pivots, etc. you may no be able to stand the car on the street anymore. That car looks a bit too pretty to be a track car.

[jester911]

My question would be how old is the stock stuff you have right now?
I would look at the shocks/struts to see how old they are unless you know already. Also the various bushings that may be totally worn out. Just getting most of that stuff back up to snuff will bring the car beyond most novice track drivers capabilites.

It really is hard to develop a car farther until you know what your needs and uses will be. Not to mention a more devoloped car is much less forgiving for a novice driver as well. As others have said you are better off improving your own skills.

Once you do that you will know what needs improving in the car .

[Don Plumley]

I had an 87 that I autox'd a fair amount, then tracked 4 days. My only changes from stock were Bilstein sport shocks, ATE SuperBlue, caliper rebuilds, fresh pads and rebuilt CV's.

Is there something specific you are wanting to fix? I'd vote to take a big hunk of that budget you are thinking of and investing into as many track days as you can.

Learning to drive at speed on a moderately stock Porsche will pay dividends in the long run. You can dump a bunch of money into improving the handling, but won't have a baseline to work from. In other words, once you plateau at a certain level, then throw mods at the car to help you get to the next level.

Sure, it's fun to bolt on lots of suspension improvements, but they will tend to hide your skill. So when you hit the handling edge, you are on a cliff instead of learning to read the feedback and gradually correcting. This is one of the reasons there are so many Evo's that roll-over. The car is substantially better than most drivers, so it continues to do everything it can to keep the car on the track. But when it hits the edge, the driver has no ability to correct and bad things happen fast.

Beautiful car BTW.

[mark4ton]

the car will remain on the street. for now. i havent looked into track days at all. and i have no idea if any of the parts on it were changed. i highly doubt it. im the third owner, and everything looks to be stock except for the cat. and for brakes i have to change my calipers, so thats why i was wanting brembos, cause they look great, and theyre brembos. i will be taking it in to get the tune up within the next month. i live in portland so im gunna take it to a&p specialties. and i will ask alin what he thinks about upgrades. and if something needs replacing. then maybe i can get a better idea on what to look for and find better deals on. i have the performance products catalog, thats where i got the idea of uping the suspension. thanks guys for all the replies and comments on my car, i try to keep it clean, after all it is a porsche.

[ZOA NOM]

Originally posted by mark4ton
the car will remain on the street. for now. i havent looked into track days at all. and i have no idea if any of the parts on it were changed. i highly doubt it. im the third owner, and everything looks to be stock except for the cat. and for brakes i have to change my calipers, so thats why i was wanting brembos, cause they look great, and theyre brembos. i will be taking it in to get the tune up within the next month. i live in portland so im gunna take it to a&p specialties. and i will ask alin what he thinks about upgrades. and if something needs replacing. then maybe i can get a better idea on what to look for and find better deals on. i have the performance products catalog, thats where i got the idea of uping the suspension. thanks guys for all the replies and comments on my car, i try to keep it clean, after all it is a porsche.

Mark, a word of advice; I have no real knowledge of your experience with these cars, but your posts leave me with the impression that the car is new to you, which shows in your excitement. It's great that you are enthusiastic about the car, and doing everything you can to make the experience better for you. My advice would be to take a deep breath and just drive the car for awhile. In my experience, one of the worst things you can do is to take it to a place for a "tune up" and ask them to reccommend upgrades for you. You will quickly be separated from your money. There are some very simple things you can check before taking a Carrera in for a tune up. First, you should buy the 101 Projects book from our host. It will give you plenty to look at and become familiar with. These cars can be finicky, but the maintenance is not beyond even the most inexperienced DIY mechanic who is willing to learn. You've taken the most important step, which is posting here. The folks on this board will save you thousands, literally. Again, slow down a bit, and just drive your new car. Don't let the shiny stuff in the magazines distract you.

[89911]

Best advice is to take your time so you only have to do what you need ONCE. I've modified both and a 87 and a 89 heavily for the track and they both need certain modification not only to make them better performers but a safer car at high speeds. The car simply is too heavy and soft for advanced track use. Granted, your levels to reach this will take some time depending on the amount of track time you do. Elephant racing has some nice systems that hit all the needed upgrades. I'd try them when your ready.

My brother's track only 87 and my track/street 89