How many of you regret changing from an older 911 to a 993?

[twin plugged targa]

The 993 being the pinnacle of all of Porsche's air cooled R&D is generally accepted as the penultimate 911, but is it as much fun as your older 911 (long hood/SC/Carrera).

Has it lost that 'go cart feel' and is it a less challenging drive and maybe because of that less fun?

I have never driven a 993, but the 996 turbo i drove felt nothing like my Carrera at the time being smooth, with perfect gear change, but quiet and smooth- Modern!!! (surprise surprise).

Just interested if there are a multitude of disappointed 993 drivers or have non of you ever looked back since purchase!.
Rgds Ben

[ActionDad]

I started with a 993 and got older...into a 79 SC for many of the reasons you listed...the 993 is fast, smooth and can be driven with one finger...all good things but not what I was looking for from my fun-car. To say I was disappointed in the 993 wouldn't be accurate but I wanted a more seat-of-the-pants feel that I felt it delivered. I find the SC to be much more engaging.

My mechanic insists he could have gotten my 993 there with some tweeks and "improvements" but in the end I was interested in getting away from the weight and automation that comes with a newer car.

Of course as soon as I was patting myself on the back for the "cool" and "fail-safe" hand-crank windows on my SC the drivers-side window jumped its track and fell to the bottom of the door!

[SP2]

I have both. I love the 993 and will never sell it, but the earlier 911's are much more fun to drive. I think some of it is psychological because I don't know how to work on a 993 at all. There aren't any DIY manuals out there. But Wayne's books make working on the earlier cars do-able.

[Bill Verburg]

Has it lost that 'go cart feel'

US Stock, Yes. Put a decent suspension under it No!

is it a less challenging drive

No, just different w/ much higher limits

maybe because of that less fun?

absolutely not, but you do need to massage the car to get the full extent of the benefits available. As delivered in the US they were set up for well heeled professionals to commute w/ just an extension of the process that started in the mid '70s

Stock mine had RoW M030 suspension which was a step above any of the US suspension options. W/ that it was fun and all around usable. Put an even better suspension under it and it's even better, but the all around usability goes down because of the ride height. The front spoilers on 993 up all project further forward than most older cars and are thus much more vulnerable to highway transitions. A friend w/ a new GT3 just buys 3 or 4 lips at a time and considers them expendable items like brake pads or gas.

[CanuckRS]

I have a 993 and love it !!! It does everything well and is a very capable car...That being said, it doesn't feel at connected as my buddy's 82 that has been setup quite nicely but as Bill said, with a few suspension tweeks, the 993 can feel more connected...The 2 cars are very different but equally fun in different ways...I choose to keep mine fairly stock (M030 Suspension, Supercups, Fikses etc.) but it's still a blast on the track...I'm currently looking for an older 911 or 914 for a track toy...

[carmad]

As Bill stated the 993 is different, and has much higher limits than the earlier cars. Yes it is much more refined, has a modern car feel to the gearshift and has AC that works. I like driving the 993 for long journeys, but love to drive my 930.
Just changing the muffler on the 993 makes it louder, which gives the perception of a more racy feel, I have a Fabspeed muffler and it sounds great, like a 911 should.
I am lucky, I have the best of both worlds, the 930 will be my track car when its finished, and the 993 is the weekend toy.
There is lots of good info on DIY at www.p-car.com

[Jim Richards]

I started with a 993, subsequently bought a 73E, and eventually sold the 993. They are quite a bit different from each other, and the 73E was more what I was looking for (light, nimble, uncivilized).

[vntgspd]

I'm in agreement with most here. My 993 makes for a fantastic daily driver that allows you be comfortable when you are tired and just want to get "there" yet is incredibly engaging when the road gets curvy or you are just in the mood to clip a few apexs. But, this does come at the cost of weight and (at times) excess refinement.

I am blessed to still have my '69 911 so that is my designated go kart. When driving the two cars back to back, it is amazing how the two cars are very different, yet the lineage is very apparent.

If I had to choose between them, by head would say 993, but my heart would say 911. Let's hope I don't have to choose.

[Marco8]

Nope!

My 3.2 was raw and fun, but I enjoy my 993 more. My 993 is so much more capable than my 88 911.

My 88 is missed and it definitely had its charm, and in a perfect world I would have both.

Also these 911s are only 8 years apart in age, but the disparity is so huge the 88 seems prehistoric to the 96 (seems closer to 18 years than 8).

If I ever chose to add an older 911, I think I would go back to a 73 or earlier so I could get the rawest 911 possible and thus the greatest contrast.

[twin plugged targa]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I guess deep down maybe I knew the answers.
My Targa is going under the knife on Wednesday to have the main seal re done, which of course means a complete engine strip down and reassembly. I am hoping that there will not be any surprises whilst in there as it is only about 30K miles since rebuild by PO's wrench in the USA.

I was having the work done to then sell her, but now am scared that I may convince myself not to!!!!!

If she does sell, it will definitely be a decision of the head and the heart will suffer for sure!.

I was telling myself 'IF' I sold her that maybe I would buy a 993 in 4-5 years time when I would have more time and funds to enjoy her, and the family would be of an age to ride in her (currently have a 9 month old and another on the way!)

Thanks
Ben

[Drago]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
I started with a 993, subsequently bought a 73E, and eventually sold the 993. They are quite a bit different from each other, and the 73E was more what I was looking for (light, nimble, uncivilized).

Similar story here...started w/ an '87 Carrera though.

Light, nimble, uncivilized.

Perfect.

Thanks for the quote Jim!

[mhackney]

Hmm, this question popped up at a good time for me! I have been thinking about moving from my 1970 911S to a "last of the air cooleds" 993. I really do love the raw driving experience of the 70S. My thinking is:

1970 911S

Pros:
- raw driving experience
- a "true" Porsche
- self serviceable (except maybe serious MFI issues)
- a piece of history
- seems to be holding its value well - but that also means that I should keep it near stock "S"

Cons:
- white - I find myself lusting over a blue, viper green or red car
- it's a coupe - targa or cab would be more fun
- MFI - although very reliable and robust, no one around me (that I've found) has much experience to help get it tuned to perfection
- needs new paint and interior refresh

993 Cab
Pros:
- should be able to find a good, solid well maintained car if patient
- can be more picky about the color (no white or black)
- "creature comforts" - stereo/CD, air conditioning, etc
- can do upgrades, etc without feeling guilty

Cons:
- not the same "raw" driving experience
- not quite the same "cool" factory (I always get comments on the S)

Not sure where I am yet but making the list was therapeutic!

Cheers,
Michael

[Spud]

I sold a 1970 911 track car to buy my 1996 993. As a comparison, the '70 911 had a MFI 2.2S motor, ~180HP, and weighed 2100Lbs. The 993 has ~280HP, and weighs around 3000lbs with the full interior. I'm running the exact same Toyo RA-1 tires (of course larger on the 993).

After driving the 993 on the same NorCal tracks for the last year with only a RoW MO30 suspension upgrade over stock I am considerably faster at each and every venue. Some tracks as much as 7-8sec. faster. And that with a bone stock car save the factory RoW MO30 suspension. The car is just plain quicker. Say what you will about this feeling or that feeling, but when it comes to going fast (stock to stock cars) the 993 wins hands down.

Now, if you are going to start adding drivetrain/suspension/braking swaps to the early car you can of course make it faster than the 993. But, by then you've spent more than the 993 would have cost, and you've lost out on a lot of the comfort and streetability of the car. The 993 does indeed give you the best of both worlds.

Just my .02

[GrantG]

I don't regret buying a 993, since I have a 73 also. 993 is a great car, but if I could only keep one, it would be the 73 for sure...

Oh, and for track use, my 73RS clone (with many upgrades) is around 8 seconds faster per lap than the 993 (with suspension upgrades).

[PK 77 911]

I am going to sell one of them but keep bouncing back and forth. I find quite alot of difference between the 2. The 77 is quick and nimble and the 84 is not as. I like the sound of the 77 with SSi.
I am working on the 84 right now, will be installing testpipe, short shift. Momo wheel, K&N Filter. I will make my decsion after the work is done. I love the looks of the 84' Cab and the feel of the 77'S.

Tough choice, but someone has to do it.

PK

[Marco8]

When I was looking at going from my 88 to the 96, one of my concerns was the self-serviceable aspects of the 993.

What I found though is that there is a ton of DIY info at p-car.com and the Rennlist forum for 993 is extremely strong (here at pelican the 993 forum is pretty dead). Also with the added complexity of the 993 there is a lot more little projects to gain self satisfaction.

Don't let the concern of self-serviceability be a factor in obtaining a 993.

[GrantG]

Originally posted by Marco8

Don't let the concern of self-serviceability be a factor in obtaining a 993.

I agree, but things that are simple on the 911 are more time-consuming on the 993:

Changing: dist. caps/rotors/plugs/plug wires takes MUCH longer on 993.

Oil change (993 has second filter which is difficult to access)

993 needs no valve adjustments though...

[Marco8]

Originally posted by GrantG
I agree, but things that are simple on the 911 are more time-consuming on the 993:

Changing: dist. caps/rotors/plugs/plug wires takes MUCH longer on 993.

Oil change (993 has second filter which is difficult to access)

993 needs no valve adjustments though...

Very true, but the challenge is part of the fun!

[vntgspd]

Originally posted by GrantG
I agree, but things that are simple on the 911 are more time-consuming on the 993:

Changing: dist. caps/rotors/plugs/plug wires takes MUCH longer on 993.

Oil change (993 has second filter which is difficult to access)

993 needs no valve adjustments though...

True, but the service interval for these things is also quite long. I daily drive my 993 and will change the oil once per year at about 10K miles vs. the factory recommendation of 15K. I believe the "difficult" filter is recommended every 2nd oil change so if I were to follow that, it would be every two years.

At the same 10K miles for the early car, I would have done at least two oil changes and one valve adjustment plus a set of plugs. That equates to about 4-5 hours of work vs. 2 hours for the 993 oil change (including both filters).

Despite the ease of maintenance on the '69, I spend at least 3x the amount of time maintaining it and it only goes about 3K miles per year. The suspension and drivetrain have all been gone through so it is no basket case but it does see regular auto-x and occassional track use.

Still love them both!

[mkimber]

Subscribed. Timely thread for me. Thanks for all the input. Very helpful.