Suspension advice

[MPegler]

I just had my 88 cab lowered to Euro height. It has 96,000 miles, and was actually above us spec -- Rear was 26 1/4.

The mechanic is a "Porsche specialist" for the last 8 years. He called me in the middle of the work to ask if there was ever an accident? He was having trouble with the drivers side front, and passenger side rear. Trouble, meaning getting the height correct, but affecting the other corner differently than normal.

Two years ago, I was hit in the drivers side front fender/wheel area. I took the opportunity for new shocks (Bilsteins) all arond, turbo tie rod ends, and a new steering rack.

I always thougt the the shop set the ride height a little high in the rear after the accident, and intended to "fix it later". The car has handled flawlessly, and been an blast to drive/toss around -- with confidence ever since.

After lowering, I'm losing traction on the passenger side rear on anything more than a mild turn. under braking, the drivers side front will lock up without much force at all.
The suspension is out of whack, and it's actually dangerous. I have NO confidence driving this car now. Something isn't right.

The car also, pulls pretty hard to the right -- even after a 4 wheel alignment.

I just want to put it back like it was!!

No, I did not have it corner balanced. By the way, the mechanic said that changing the torsion bars was probably the best fix.??

Any help is appreciated!

[tonythetarga]

+1 what Noah said.
It is most likely corner balance. Anytime you mess with ride height you need to corner balance. He might be a specialist in charging Porsche rates, but fixing them might be something else.

[Tyson Schmidt]

Yep, what Noah sadi. Plus, don't use the fender lips as the ride height gauge. Measure to the center of the torsion bar caps front and rear. The fender could be anywhere in relation to the suspension.

Sounds like he got it out of whack trying to get the heights even. if you are not on a perfectly even surface, you'll never get heights of the croners even. This should be done on a corner balance platform that is even, and coner-balanced simutaneously.

[Quicksilver]

You are in SoCal so you have the pick of some of the best Porsche suspension specialists around. I would call Johnson Alignments in Torrance or TRE in North Hollywood and get in corner balanced correctly.

[MPegler]

Thanks guys. I feel better. I guess I won't take it back to him, and take it over to TRE -- like I should have in the first place GRRRR!

Funny, I asked him about corner balance, and he said.

"It's not worth it, unless you're looking for that last 10th of a second on your lap time."

Lesson learned.

[MPegler]

I'm reviving this thread because the mechanic called and said he wanted to "make it right." He swears that new torsion bars are the answer.

I agreed to get the new bars, and bushings.

-----Is this a mistake?

1 month later, he can't find new stock torsion bars. We decide on a used set if they can be found.

-----WTF? I just want my car sorted out!

Choices:
A. Cut my losses, and head over to TRE. Try to get some money back.

B. Keep waiting, find some bars, and let him make the car right.

Seems like an easy choice, but he seems like he knows his stuff, and is convincing when I'm talking to him. He's got a long waiting list of customers I know who have him service their cars. I give him credit in pursuing me to make the car right -- he didn't have to.

Thoughts??

Thanks in advance.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Mike:

Go over to see Dave @ TRE, NOW.

Anyone telling you that new torsion bars are 'the' fix is incorrect. Tyson, Noah and others have offered 24 kt gold advice that you need to follow if you want your car to handle properly.

[cbeers]

Agreed, if anything reindexing them might be needed, but that's where the CB will come into play. My car was in about the same situation, I opted to do a full rebuild because it was due anyway. NOT needed though to get your car sorted.

Go see TRE, cut your losses.

-Chris

[stlrj]

After lowering, I'm losing traction on the passenger side rear on anything more than a mild turn. under braking, the drivers side front will lock up without much force at all.

That's why I raised mine back up and am having a ball tossing it around the way it was designed to handle!

Now you have some idea what you give up when you concentrate on looks and ignore performance.

Cheers,

Joe

[swa911]

I've been down this road. Same problem to a "T".

the car needs to be corner balanced. The problem you are describing seems like the cars weight is all on 2 wheels at opposite corners. This guy clearly does not know what he is doing. BTW I work for Buckley Racing in FT.Worth TX. I've learned quite a bit about suspensions.

I have some sway-a-way adjustable spring plates with ER bushings for sale that would greatly ease the raising and lowering of the car to corner balance. PM me.

[stlrj]

I always thought the the shop set the ride height a little high in the rear after the accident, and intended to "fix it later". The car has handled flawlessly, and been an blast to drive/toss around -- with confidence ever since.

...no mention of corner balance and it still handled?

Humm...

By the way, mine was never corner balance and it handles great at stock height.

[Gunter]

Originally posted by MPegler
I'm reviving this thread because the mechanic called and said he wanted to "make it right." He swears that new torsion bars are the answer.

I agreed to get the new bars, and bushings.

-----Is this a mistake?

1 month later, he can't find new stock torsion bars. We decide on
a used set if they can be found.

-----WTF? I just want my car sorted out!

Choices:
A. Cut my losses, and head over to TRE. Try to get some money back.

B. Keep waiting, find some bars, and let him make the car right.

Seems like an easy choice, but he seems like he knows his stuff, and is convincing when I'm talking to him. He's got a long waiting list of customers I know who have him service their cars. I give him credit in pursuing me to make the car right -- he didn't have to.
Thoughts??
Thanks in advance.

My thoughts would be: Why do you ask for advise, get excellent advise and then ignore it??

A good Porsche mechanic is not necessarily a specialist on suspension issues.
Even with new/different T-bars, you still have the problem.
Also, you'll need to decide what camber & toe you want aside from Euro height.
Discuss your driving style with a real Pro who can advise you and also has the right equipment for alignment and c-balancing.

Will you finally do the right thing?

Or are you coming back in another month with the same issue?

[Shawn 357]

Food for thought:
If I set my ride heights off the fender lips on my car then I will have almost the same issue you are having regardless of what torsions bars I am running. If I take the time to get out the scales and corner balance my car then my car will handle wonderfully but my right front ride height will be slightly higher then my left front ride height (according to the fender lips).

Like everyone else said corner balance your car. You can buy T-bars if you want but you probably don't need them.

Hope this helps,
Shawn

[Gunter]

Same here.
Car is balanced but front fender lips have 1/4 inch difference. Ignore.
It can happen, of course, that someone indexed the T-bars and went wrong by one tooth on one side.
That will come out when checked by an expert on suspension.
Corner balancing will only work if it is done on LEVEL support such as you'll find in good shops.

[DaddyGlenn]

Originally posted by Gunter
My thoughts would be: Why do you ask for advise, get excellent advise and then ignore it??

A good Porsche mechanic is not necessarily a specialist on suspension issues.
Even with new/different T-bars, you still have the problem.
Also, you'll need to decide what camber & toe you want aside from Euro height.
Discuss your driving style with a real Pro who can advise you and also has the right equipment for alignment and c-balancing.

Will you finally do the right thing?

Or are you coming back in another month with the same issue?

+1

When you get the same advice from several people on this board, it is a "no-brainer." Trust the Pelicanites.

[gulf911]

+1

Take it to Johnsons Alignment in Torrance, ask for Steve Alercon. I commend others polite responses regarding your mechanic. Once he puts the new bars in will he do a corner balance?? hmmmm....

He does not know what he's doing regarding suspension alignment if he told you t-bars will fix it, and told you you don't need a CB...

[MPegler]

Guys,

Thanks. It was obvious what I was going to do, even as I typed.

Appreciate your thoughts and support.

Mike

[MPegler]

Success!!

I took my car to Steve Alarcon at Johnsons Alignment. He first put it on the scales (first time I've seen this done).

The car was 480lbs off!! Way light, left corner, way heavy left rear. Way heavy right front, way light right rear. Steve says he thinks my car set a record for being out of whack!

The culprit was one of the torsion bars was mis-indexed by 25 degrees.

The car handles flawlessly, and I couldn't be happier. The best part, however, is that Steve offered to talk to the other shop owner to explain what he found. He also made notes on my invoice with the specifics of the problems he found so I would have the right info to get my money back.

Great guy, professional operation. Totally routine job for him.

Thanks all for the great advice.

[swa911]

See my post above.

Exactly what I said.

glad you got it worked out.