Dr. Timmins 3.6 conversion

[mnmasotto]

I am going to do a 3.6 conversion in my 1987 3.2. Does anyone have experience working with his 3.6 kit or the package from Patrick motorsports? If so, is there any way I could call you to ask a few questions. Please P.M. your phone number and I will call you at your convenience.

Thanks Mark!!!!!!

[fastbacker]

Try doing a search. There's alot of opinions on the board.

[TonyG]

PM'ed

[ischmitz]

Timmens and PMS are the two kits out there AFAIK. Timmens seems to get a lot of good press here but also every once in a while some complaints. I think his time is limited and he might get tired of answering the same questions over and over again. Maybe his business outgrew his capacity and he is not set up like a full operation with customer service and all that goes along with it. I saw one of the very early kits a while back and had issues with the quality of some of the parts. Bicycle parts and duct tape but this might have been fixed over the years. Timmens also offers solutions for the exhaust. He sure has the most complete offering albeit at a price.

PMS makes the conversion flywheel and a modded throttle cable as well as the wiring harness and some billet aluminum parts. I have not looked at their website for quite a while and don't know if they have a complete kit.

I did my conversion without any kit and it took me a while to source all the parts. However, that way it was more fun and I know exactly what I did. Running like a champ for 4+ years. Depending on what you want to achieve a kit might be the easiest way to get fast results.

The bottom line is to make sure to have a fit and healthy donor motor. Remember, some of the earlier 964s are coming up on 17 years now and can have issues on their own. I had to rebuild my engine. Some others here had similar issues. Then there are some engines out there that seem indestructible even after multiple seasons of hard racing (Jack Olsen).

If I had to do it all over again that is where I would have paid more attention. Do a search here. It is probably one of the most-discussed engine swaps on the board. Lots of good information out there.

Once you buy one of these packages I would expect the respective seller to provide sufficient product support in form of descent manuals, phone support, etc. If that is not the case we are simply talking about an incomplete product. This is a basic principle of marketing: Your product is only as good as all of its components. If service and support are missing I would not be willing to pay a premium for it.

What is it you want to know?
Ingo

[Joeaksa]

Ingo's post is right on the money. I have worked with both of these companies products and service. With one of them their parts work but there are areas where the quality (IMHO) leaves something to be desired. The other companies work is top quality but probably costs a bit more, but then I work on aircraft and do not put up with "shade tree or slipshod" engineering on my car. Duct tape and bike cable have no place on my 911.

This is based on my experience with them 3 years ago. Times change and so do people/parts. Both may be the best in the world or they may be just like old times.

Personally I feel that if you live in the NE and are close to Timmins that the choice would be easy as he lives there. Since you live on the left coast you are closer to Patrick. UPS/FedEx services both.

Personal experience. I emailed Patrick Motor Sports years ago and asked what they would charge to do a 3.6 conversion on my car. I live 20 miles away from their shop. Never received a reply. Sent another email and same result. Ended up buying some parts from Timmins. After a couple of calls and less than a warm reception ended up calling, then going to Patrick's shop without calling ahead of time.

Not knowing me from Adam, Jim Patrick spent over an hour with me, discussing the possible issues with my car and in the end I purchased some parts from him. Up until the last 10 minutes he had no idea that I was going to spend a nickle with him. Took the parts (a DME conversion harness) home and plugged it into my car. Still would not start. Ended up towing the car to his shop and half a day later it was running.

Jim Patrick can be busy at times which might result in no reply's with emails or calls. Same thing can happen at Timmins as his full time job is a University Teacher. At least with Patrick this is his full time job. That said his work and products are racing or aircraft quality and second to none. Timmins quality may have improved but for my time and money will stay with Patrick. It might cost a bit more but I can guarantee that it will fit, work and you will be happy with the quality or Patrick will take care of it. He is an expert at what he does.

[Bill Verburg]

I've worked w/ both as well, Steve would get the nod from me.

[Joe Bob]

I have a Timmins kit.....was one of the first. His kit on a scale of 1-10.....was a 7...ish. I was in a hurry and EFI scared me....I shoulda just did my homework with ALL the other conversions I have done before.....

He's on the east coast and doesn't care about CA smog rules, he has some kludgey accel linkages, his muffler and Heat Exchanger stuff is blingbling, pricey and cruddy, and his follow up is sporadic.

HE DOES have decent prices on the ENGINE....his peripheral parts pricing is thru the roof....or at least it was. Oh yeah....his bedside manner ......hmm, makes ME look like Mother Teresa....

Now...Patrick Motor Sports....they don't nickname them PMS for nothing. I'll just leave it at that due to respect to Wayne and Joe the previous poster.

I shoulda run into Ingo earlier after a hangover at the local ATM.....there are BETTER ideas out there and if you think it out you CAN do it yourself.

[fastbacker]

First off, I have no experience with PMS. But, I did buy a complete engine converted with everything needed to do the swap from Timmons a year and a half ago.

The good:

I found Steve to be incredibly helpful over the phone and through e-mails. He was patient and went out of his way to explain things. Pretty easy to get on the phone.

The bad:

Some of the parts used (ie. household wiring) and work (ie. sheet metal conversion & wiring harness) were substandard - not the way pros would do it.

From what I've learned from a few Porsche shops, Timmons kit's quality has gotten much better over the years but still leaves something to be desired.

CB

[William Miller]

Hey Ingo!
I've completed my conversion which is running great.
I did it all myself with a lot of reserch and help from many people on this fourm and just as many good contacts that they gave me.
I made my own harness, benchmarking off Ingo's and a lot of time studying the wiring diagrams of both cars.

My only failure so far was attempting to get an early C4 flywheel machined to accept the 915 pressure plate. It did fit untill I tried to insert same into the bell housing. I found the OD for the sensor was too big. I was in a huge hurry at that poing and caved and ordered the PMS flywheel and sensor holder. It was bassically the only "specialty" conversion part that I purchased.

Ben @ M&K helped me out with a great muffler.

There are a dozen or so possible combinations of these swops because of the different year cars and different year engines. That's where you have to be very carefull reading over the threads. Some things work with some combinations, but not with others. Many exhaust and heat options too.

Good luck with whatever you do and don't hesitate to ask questions here. Advice is free because we are doing this for fun and not trying make a living on it!

[Joe Bob]

BTW....as to exhaust, I went with 993 HEs, modded to fit the 964 motor. I did a custom mandrel bend to get a each bank to go into a single collector....did a bung for an 02 sensor, then a sport cat and a muffler with a supertrapp end cap.

It's quiet, smog legal and works.....

[ischmitz]

Originally posted by mikez
It's quiet, smog legal and works.....

but it looks ugly....

[Joe Bob]

Ah.....comments from the peanut gallery. Tell me how fast it is....or should I say compared to the "brown thingy" y'all gots?

BTW...yer buying tonite.....

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by ischmitz
but it looks ugly....

Mike or the pipe or both??

[Joe Bob]

Ooooh, tuff room....

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by mikez
Ooooh, tuff room....

Mike,

I can be brave, am sitting overseas right now so too far away for you to throw something at me!

When you going to get over to Phoenix again?