Toe specs for Carrera?

[450knotOffice]

Would somebody please give me the specs on toe settings front and rear? My car goes in tomorrow morning for an alignment check and Tyson Schmidt has mentioned in the past that a good setting for rear toe for street use is max negative toe that is still within spec.

So, what is the range?

Thanks guys.

[stlrj]

You don't need to know it. The specs are in the alignment machine software. All you need is to tell the technician to set it as close to zero as possible.

Besides, the specs are meaningless to us unless we have an alignment rack.

Joe

[stlrj]

[rusnak]

I think there is some leeway on suspension settings. I've used 1/16th toe in on the rear and front, but I've read elsewhere that the proper alignment is 0.0 deg rear toe in. I think this partially depends on other settings such as camber and type of tire, type of driving style etc.

[Wil Ferch]

Assuming for your 3.2:

Front toe-in ( total...combo of both sides) = +15 minutes (+/- 5 minutes)

Rear toe-in ....PER WHEEL ...is 10 minutes (+/- 10 minutes)

- Wil

[450knotOffice]

Thanks Wil.

[JP911]

Scott-
Is this for track use or street use? I just had my 74 aligned (track specs) by our local Bay Area guru and he recommends slight toe in on the rear (for stability) and slight toe out in the front (for improved turn in).

[450knotOffice]

Jon, the car has been used for the street only but this fall I'll start using it maybe 6 to 8 days a year for DE's (mostly at big Willow).

[Quicksilver]

You also need to allow for differences in toe between different cars and different drivers.

Close to zero rear toe is a good starting place but if the tail end of the car wants to bite you a little additional toe can take some of the evil tendencies out of a car.

[Wil Ferch]

Scott:

For a 90-98% street car with a few DE's thrown-in, may I be so bold to sugest some settings for you ?

Front:
spec toe...toward minimum, max caster of 6-6.5 degrees ( more important to get left-to-right to be as equal as you can, moreso than max setting) , negative camber anywhere from -30 min to - 1 degree.

Rear:
"slight" toe-in. For more neutral handling try to match the camber to whatever you ended up using in front..if you want a touch more stability, run an additional -30 min neg camber compared to the front.

- Wil

[450knotOffice]

Thanks Wil. Absolutely, you may be so bold! I want and appreciate the input.

The reason for the alignment check is that the car has exhibited a somewhat spooky tendency at speed for quite a while now and I have a feeling the rear toe might be off a bit, toward toe-out. Hergesheimer Motorsports has been my main shop for as long as I've had the car (three years) and their alignment/corner balance guru set the car up for me in the past. He's going to take a look at it and see if something's off on the settings.

The specs he set it to last time are:

Camber
1 3/8 degrees LF and RF
1 1/4 degrees LR and RR

Toe
+15' Front
+20' Rear (He told me today that's 20' toe-IN)

Caster - all the way back, iirc.

Corner balance:
LF 501
RF 504
LR 814
RR 814
(Awesome numbers)

[stlrj]

For starts, your front camber settings are 1 3/8 degrees off spec. which would easily account for your spooky tendency at speed.

Cheers,

Joe

[rusnak]

I like what Wil said, regarding left to right symmetry. I think that you may have unequal toe, camber, or some other parameter such as weight jacking that is causing the spooky handling, Scott.

[911nut]

Originally posted by stlrj
You don't need to know it. The specs are in the alignment machine software. All you need is to tell the technician to set it as close to zero as possible.

Besides, the specs are meaningless to us unless we have an alignment rack.

Joe

Joe, your kidding I hope.
Tell me, how were cars aligned before computers and digital readouts?
It may interest you to know that some of us align our own cars and in fact we're pretty good at it.

Wil, won't max caster make for sluggish turn-in?

[Wil Ferch]

Max caster will make for a serious sense of "straight-ahead"....great tracking. Also helps when ( heaven forbid !) you get *really* screwed up in a turn on the track and are about to lose the car....some guys like letting go of the wheel ( ever so-slightly) and the car has a miraculous way of "catching" itself. All anecdotal of course !!!!

Of course, you could use slightly less caster...something around 5 degrees or 5.5 degrees, which I believe was used for the various earliest 911's as their factory spec...and may be the reason they had such a wonderful light feel.

- Wil

[450knotOffice]

Well, well. So, after bringing the car to the shop I use, Hergesheimer, here's the deal - the back end is indeed steering the front around. However, the reason isn't due to my alignment settings after all, it's actually being caused by my very worn and sagging trailing arm bushings.

The car was driven by Jim this morning and he confirmed that the car is squirrelly indeed. He said "Whoo yea, if you're not careful with that car the back end feels like it really wants to snap around!" Spooky for sure. Uh huh. I'm not dreaming then (he knows what old 911's are supposed to feel like. He drives a '77 Targa as his daily driver, and his is not spooky like mine).

He put it up on the machine, checked the settings and all was good. He took a good look at the trailing arm (sometimes called the banana arm) bushings and through-bolt alignment and found the bushes to be a little worn. When I came out there to see it, he put it back on the alignment rack and showed me the problem.

While we were under there he took a marker pen and outlined the spring plate's positions relative to the trailing arms and marked all of the adjustment bolts so I can at least get the alignment settings close to where they are now.

I'll have to wait for a month or two before I tackle this job because my wife needs a breather from me spending large sums of cash on this car - I just plunked down $4,000 for a bunch of other work that needed to be done so she's a little shell-shocked right now. Once I start on it, I'll go with the monoballs back there. Might as well do it right. I'll do the work myself and bring it back to them to have it re-aligned when I'm done.

Hey, now at least I know what the problem is (maybe).

[BlueSideUp]

Scott- Good you found the problem. I forgot, what are you using for your trailing arm bushings?

I have a set of Neatrix in a box right now for my spring plates, I'm not sure if I want to install PBs on my non-adjustable spring plates. I know the trailing arm bushings are also original and due for replacement, I'll be curious to see how your monoball install goes. It will involve an engine drop for me but I'm sure you'll come up with all kinds of tips.

[450knotOffice]

On the trailing arms I'll use mono-balls. As for the spring plates, I traded in my old ones for a set that had OEM rubber bushings that were in perfect condition, no sag or deformation at all, perfectly round. I actually bought a set of Neatrix bushings for my old spring plates but never used them. I still have them laying around somewhere.

[rusnak]

Monoball is what you're left with after wife gets mad at you dropping too much coin on yer baby....or on the Porsche.