How long did your first valve adjustment take?
 

Just got my first Porsche (88 911 coupe)... bought a bit north of NYC. Flew in, drove it home - very fun road trip.

Just did my first valve adjustment :mad:(still going through the car finding all of the things PPI didn't). After 4 hours, I still hadn't adjusted a single valve. After around 9 or 10 hours (includes lunch and a run to the hardware store for loctite to reinstall 9 valve cover studs; also 1 - 2 hours for getting stuck nuts off backed out valve cover studs, and reinstalling them) I was done. Took me 1/2 hour just to get the feeler gage under the first valve:mad::mad::mad:!

Most folks claim "easy" as the difficulty level for this task. Wayne's book says "3 hours". Am I just too mechanically disinclined to own a 911? Are folks on this board 3-armed, stalk-eyed telepathic space aliens with powerful hands that double as wrenches;)?

I've worked on cars all my life - never been quite this annoyed by routine maintenance.

Tried to upload a photo of the car, but I get a Java Script Error....

So, just curious hoe everyone else faired at their initiation....

I think it must have taken me 4-5 hours the first time. It does take a bit of "feel" to get it right. I didn't get it right the first time and ended up having to go back in and redo it. So my first time was really 8-9 hours. Now it takes me maybe an hour start to finish.

1st one took 10 hours!! I cut that time in half on the second go around.

do you have to replace the valve cover gaskets every time?

Not if you buy the silicon type. They are reusable but they require less torque.

I got lucky. Suited my fingers perfectly. The actual adjustment took less than an hour. Love to do it. I am weird that way (too).

However. Took me several hours to get all the stuff off that is blocking the access.

Some owners like the 'backside' method better. Strait feeler blade with a go-no go teqniche. I tried it but found the factory method more to my liking.

One guy said it took him 2-days, I have him beat..............2-1/2 days (12 hour days too).

In my own defense I was doing the work outside and did not want rain water in my engine and all over my tools. I battled several weather fronts.

I also spent time cleaning the inside of the engine (lots of time), power-washing the underside when done, torquing the head studs, checking a couple of rocker arms with a 5 mm allen, posting a dozen times on Pelican for more information, took a few naps (hey it was raining at the time), new spark plugs, new rotor, new cap, printing tech articles.......................and cleaning up.

I think next time I'll be able to do it all in a single 10-hour day.:cool:

I should note that I used the ultra fast and easy "backside" method, I'm assuming it would of taken me even longer doing it the traditional method.

EDIT:
I should note that my alternator replacement also took a long time because I painted part of the engine, polished the fan, cleaned the top of the engine and other things while it was opened up.

3+ months... I'm slow :(! I'm not EVEN going into my "while you're in there" story...

The first one took a week (while in winter storage), but I'll say I went through it 3x before I was convinced things were cool. I probably spend 3 hours or so on it now, assuming the car is already on jack stands for the winter.

"Took me 1/2 hour just to get the feeler gage under the first valve!"

FWIW, I found on some valves it was much easier to loosen the nut and back the elephant foot out just a bit. The feeler gauge then slid in easily and then do your adjustment.

Sounds like you are doing it the traditional method. I used the "backside" method and found roughly 1/3 of the tolerances too tight (starting out), 1/3 too wide (starting out), and 1/3 required no adjustment at all.

I hope knowing this helps you in some way and saves you time.

First time I did this, it took about 4 hours.
I VERY frustrated with it, so I decided to quit, do something else more fun and try again the next day with a fresh head and rested eyes.

The next day, it took about 2 1/2 hours.
I used a combination of the 2 methods- the "Backside Method" worked great for areas too tough to reach using the conventional procedure.
I was so glad I downloaded and printed that article.

Thanks Pelican, you made my day!

Adjusting these valves was quite a challenge compared to my beloved '71 BMW 2002.

It's best if you allow plenty of time, work slowly and methodically and actually look forward to it, rather than "trying to get it done by X-thirty".

When I took the car out for a spirited run, man, I couldn't believe the difference in sound!
Such a rush ! The car sounded and actually felt faster.
Refine your skills- you will be glad you did and you'll have a sense of accomplishment nothing else provides.

I have "passing power" now and not just a momentum machine any more.

funny... glad someone else mentions having a 71 2002. The valves for that are like "on my way out to get the paper ... I stopped and adjusted the valves". For my 89 it took me a few times and modifying the feeler to make it easier to get it in there... all the comments sound what I went through. I need to try the backside method but haven't yet.... I go for the feel of a firm slide.. no play using the .1mm or is it 0.004" feeler. I used the silicon gaskets and still have them on the top. It is easy to overtighten them... I used to use a torque wrench for all the nuts, not anymore I just go by a constant feel and angle after things "bottom" out. Have plenty of time so you don't have to rush.. it takes a bit of practice to be confident and get a consistant adjustment. The thread pitch doesn't really help the situation, what is the pitch anyway? Probably .5mm to .75mm. I should know that....

I agree with several folks here..That being:

1. The first time you attempt the job is a frustrating experience.
2. You must have the right tool and slightly modify it to the correct angle to access the valve.
3. Backing the nut off, inserting the gauge and then adjusting; will save time.
4. I rotate 120deg. at a time to allow me to adjust one side of the engine at a time.
5. go back and check before buttoning up the engine.

The caveat here is the last step (#4)...once you have done SEVERAL valve adjustments, you'll be able to complete #4 in a short peiod of time.

My first time valve job only took 1/2 an hour....................to drive it to John Walkers shop!

okay, I guess it took an hour because I had to drive back there to pick it up.......he heh.

If it's your first time then x1.75 times how ever long it should take. The reason is that you spend you ENTIRE weekend adjusting the valves. Starts up the engine and it sounds like crap because you adjusted the valves TOO loose. The "drag" should be really "DRAG".

Then it takes you another 1.5 days to readjust your valves. The second time, you work a bit faster. That is why total time is only 1.75 instead of the 2x. :)

Yes, it happened to me too.

Anyway, if you are worried that the valves are adjusted TOO tight, simply try to rock the rocker. You should feel a little/small click. If you don't then it's adjusted too tight and the elephant foot is in constant contact with the valve stem. And that is bad.

Correction...on kqw's post.. for step 4, need to rotate the engine 240 degrees ( not 120) to stay on the "same side" of the engine. If you rotate 120 degree increments, as per factory ...then you're jumping fropm one side of the engine to another.

Also...yep...use the "backside" method. much easier and it also checks if you're OK before you loosen any nuts. It gives you a "go/no go" if you need to adjust at all !!! It's in the Tech section and also look for name "Doug" and 2.7Racer.

-Wil

Thanks for the replies - I feel better now!

Good news from the adjustment was that all head stud barrel nuts were present, accounted for, and at least not loose ... didn't feel too confident re-torqueing those Dilavar studs after all I've read.

Looks like the reply section will let me upload a picture:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1185554433.jpg

backside baby!

yes... agreee drag should be DRAG

Hello Burgermeister,

I had a very bad time with my first go at this on my 85 3.2

I also own a 914 , I can adjust the valves in a couple of hours.

I could not believe how difficult this procedure was, I could not get a feel for the tightness required, couldn't see what I was doing, and when I did think I had the gap set the adjuster would turn when I tightened the nut.

After about 10 hours of this abuse I buttoned it up & took it to a pro.

This was one of the few times I've paid for service, the money was well spent!!!

The mechanic said that it was very tough for him also, he recommended I buy new adjuster screws & nuts for the next time. I purchased these from our host.

I have about 10,000 more miles until required.... I'm dreading the task.

Greenie

my 1st time was a disaster. it took me the whole day and through the night. but i was determine to finish it. i didn't know that you're not suppose to use a ramp on the rear tires and have at least a 15qt. bucket to catch oil. duh!!! on my part. i found that out the hard way. oil spill all over the garage like exxon valdez. i went through trash to find empty bottles just to catch more oil. can you believe it i drained both sides at the same time. ha ha ha... oil finally stopped dripping. so, i started my valve adjustment. i was moving right along. then i realize the car was moving everytime i turn the fan pulley. i said to myself hmmm....i guess it was suppose to do that. then it got worst. so, i stopped the turning. i took out the ramp and jacked up the car rear ends. so, i continued on step by step traditional method here pelican site tech articles(couldn't fiure out the backside method). whew, i finally finished plus cleaning oil spills by midnight. so, the next day got up early and test drove the car. it was a failure. all my hard work down the drain. it was loose like tin cans rattling inside. so, i adjusted the valve again for another 5hrs. this time i double checked it before i button it up and test drove again. wow!!! the car was just amazing to drive. i went for a long drive to the coast. ahhhh.... finally i can enjoy my car.

Haven't done the valve adjust yet b/c it was done rather recently by my mechanic.

However, I did just replace my fuel filter which was supposed to be a 15 minute job ... bah. If my old filter had been easy to remove, I would still say 45 minutes. Pretty tight in that corner.

I guess that my point is that I expect to do the work in 2x the amount of time alloted by the 101 Projects book when doing it the first time.

The week before I adjusted the valves I replaced the fuel filter and accumulator (regulator) at the same time, that was a task and a half.

Every 6,000 miles for those two, right?

I think that every 6k is a fair guide for fuel filter changes. I have had my SC for 2 1/2 years (about 6k miles) and had never changed the fuel filter ... and have no record of when it was replaced. I can tell you that the filter was VERY heavy and the fuel coming out of it was rather NASTY to say the least.

I probably won't mess with the accumulator until it fails (shows signs of failure - hot start problems, fuel pressure issues). If I recall, the accumulator is a little too pricey to be changed every 6k.

The valve adjustment is more along the lines of every 10k but everyone has their opinion / preference. With track use, the valves will probably need to be adjusted more often.

I approached my first valve adjustment with a fair amount of trepidation, and even now I have to say my mechanic gets the assignment half of the time because he can adjust the valves in less than half the time it takes me.

If it's your first valve adjustment, get the 911 feeler gauge. Also buy the factory valve cover gasket set, and you will want to change the oil and filter at the same time. If you are due to replace spark plugs, that is a good final step before putting the valve covers back on. It's also easier if you remove the ac compressor, heater elbow (on the 3.2 cars), catalytic converter, and also clean the engine with a power washer and non-petroleum based degreaser the day before. You have to adjust the valves with the engine absolutely cold (ambient temperature).

Also, I picked up a DVD and old school VHS tape that covered the procedure. It made me feel a lot better about myself the first go around. Both are nice resources for the visual learner.

3 times over the course of a month last summer. Twice using the 'traditional' method. I just couldn't get the feel. The last time I did the racer2.7 backside method & it was done. Much, much better.

6 hours the 1st. 6 hours the 2nd. 3 hours the last.

Ian

So - just what makes the valves go out of adjustment? I can't imagine it's wear on the cam / rocker - the valvetrain would need replacing in no time. Can't imagine the heads warp much over time, either - seems a noticeable loss of compression would result. I suppose the valves could slowly recede into the head by wearing their seating surfaces (in which case, the tendency would be to get tighter)?

Has anyone experimented with letting them go longer than 10 or 15 K miles? Or is that just sacrilege (in which case I shall never mention it again!)

Oh yeah, for the backside method - how do you keep the .0025 feeler gage from buckling while checking the gap? I am imagining a little holder, or maybe supergluing a thicker leaf to the lower part of it...

Just oil it or keep it oiled, wiggle it don't shove or thrust /push it.

The very first one I did using the backside method even my smallest feeler (way way smaller than .0025 inch) would not go in. No one said they could be too tight, but I found out, yea I found out.

Now I've got the ticket to ride, beep beep n' yea...............

+ 1

I did mine once that was enough for me. I've replaced the motor, suspension from bushing to t-bars, entire interior but the valve adjustment is one job I gladly take to JW.

I just did my first one several week ago. Full weekend project for me. Did it the normal way, then went back and did it the "Backside" way. I like that method better.

I happened to have some red and green small zip ties. Attached the green to the "go" Red to the "no Go". Made the gages easier to handle and identify.

Big Messy PIA

I did not sand the lowers covers flat and still have a small leak. :(

Slightly OT, but how long does your mechanic take to do it. I had a top end recently, and when I brought it back for the valve adjustment at 1000 miles, I was charged 6 hours labor for that alone.

I'll be doing my tappets early next week when I get my clickadjust tool, I've not read of anyone Stateside thats used one, it was a very popular tool in the UK before hydraulic tappets became commonplace. I've used the tool years ago on various motors, with good results, so I thought I'd try it on the p-car.


I'll report on the results as soon as I've had a play. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1185606268.jpg

That's a cool looking tool. Its shape would make it difficult to use with regular method, but it might be great for the favored "backside" method. How does it work (adjust) and how finely can you set it?

EDIT: Just found this: http://www.lbcarco.com/clik/Clikadjust_1.html
Interesting,but I'm pretty happy using the feeler gauges on the backside...

The click tool is interesting. Use it with this sentence I've posted before....

"Seeing the valve adjustment bolt is 8mm x 1mm pitch...too bad we can't get a device that precisely opens the adjustment nut 36 degrees ( or so) from closed.

Target is 0.1 mm gap. One complete 360 degree rotation is 1mm. We want 1/10 this or 1/10 of a full "rotation" .

- Wil

EDIT--> from the "clickadjust" ad link posted in this thread..." The Clikadjust is a specialized screwdriver that provides an audible click for every 1/30 (12° ) of a full turn so that for a given rocker arm and adjusting screw, a given number of clicks equates to opening the gap from zero to a certain gap distance. ..."

So, for us 911 guys, this would be three clicks ( 3/30 of a turn or = 1/10 turn)...and we're "there" ???

It does seem like a nifty method, but I'd still be nervous that the setting would be changed, once you tighten the lock-nut. I guess we could always try a few valves and double check with traditional methods to be assured that it was accurate...

I'm beginning to sense a "real good thing" in combining this tool with Doug's backside adjustment method ( that is...when "needed"...since his method checks the *need* in the first place without un-doing any screws or nuts !).


Of course, we can still use Doug's backside method *after* the click tool is used too...as a "go / no go" check.

Fabulous.

- Wil

Here's three things I hate about the backside method.

• You have to constantly crawl out from under the car.
• You have to literally guess at how far to turn the screw, as the feeler gauge is out of reach..
• You have to decide how hard you have to force the .003 gauge to qualify as a "no-go". I've had valve that I swore were perfect. But after 5 minutes of fiddling, I could force the .003 gauge in.

Here's three things I hate about the traditional method.

• How much drag is the right drag?
• You have to be even more of a contortionist.
• You can't see anything when adjusting some valves.