Relocate Shifter

[CMXI]

I was playing with the thought about relocating my shifter.

Has anybody any experience of this.

Ive found a picture here of a aftermarket shifter.

Does anybody have a drawing for a shifter like this one..

[Kroggers]

That is the Hargett Precision Shifter (in your pic)
Hargett Precision Shifter!!!!
Good for track use, not so good for road use.

[ChrisBennet]

A friend of mine moved his shifter back some. He shortened the rod some to do it as I recall.
-Chris

[NoLift911]

Originally Posted by Kroggers

That is the Hargett Precision Shifter (in your pic)
Hargett Precision Shifter!!!!
Good for track use, not so good for road use.

What's wrong with road use?

[Kroggers]

The shifter covers the handbrake making it a bit impractical for road use...

[rcecale]

I've got absolutely no experience with either but, with all the talk about how much the Wevo Solid Engine and Transmission Mounts hold the transmission in direct line with the shift plane (improving shifting), I'm surprised that a shifter with such an angled connection wouldn't cause more problems than it's worth.

(Just my own $.02, which is probably way over priced! :-) )

Randy

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by rcecale

I've got absolutely no experience with either but, with all the talk about how much the Wevo Solid Engine and Transmission Mounts hold the transmission in direct line with the shift plane (improving shifting), I'm surprised that a shifter with such an angled connection wouldn't cause more problems than it's worth.

(Just my own $.02, which is probably way over priced! :-) )

Randy

I'm sure it's designed to be installed in the same fore-aft shift plane. The angular difference shouldn't matter as long as it's not excessive. Driveshafts and CV joints are set up this way all the time. In addition, they also rotate and deliver torque.

The parking brake is problematic for street driving, IMHO. Maybe the manufacturer could incorporate a vertical lever to set and release the existing horizontal parking brake lever.

Sherwood

[A930Rocket]

I've got the Hargett shifter in my car and the handbrake is no big deal. Works like it always did.

The shifter places it up and back, making shifts a snap and next to impossible to miss when on the track.

[rcecale]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

The angular difference shouldn't matter as long as it's not excessive.

I understand about the mechanics of driveshafts and CV Joints, no problem. In the picture provided above, the link between the shifter and the transmission is easily at least 20 degrees off the fore-aft plane, if not more. No doubt much more excessive than the most worn out of mounts would cause.

Following the believe that the straighter, the better, this particular case above would seem to be extremely difficult to shift. Just a guess, but I would bet that, for some reason, it's not....but why?

Randy

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by Kroggers

The shifter covers the handbrake making it a bit impractical for road use...

Actually it is the heater controls that are blocked, handbrake can still work. I did some mods to my Hargett to allow better access to the heater. I have a hydraulic parking brake so the e-brake thing was of no concern to me.

Cheers

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by rcecale

I understand about the mechanics of driveshafts and CV Joints, no problem. In the picture provided above, the link between the shifter and the transmission is easily at least 20 degrees off the fore-aft plane, if not more. No doubt much more excessive than the most worn out of mounts would cause.

Following the believe that the straighter, the better, this particular case above would seem to be extremely difficult to shift. Just a guess, but I would bet that, for some reason, it's not....but why?

Randy

A 20º angular drive with one joint is one thing. With two joints, as shown, the angularity is 1/2. Thus, no biggie compared to a driveshaft u-joint running @ 10º or a steering shaft with even more angularity.

I've never driven a race car with a Hewland or other rear-mount gearbox, but the linkage path from driver cabin to the extreme rear of the vehicle is more tortuous than this and I hadn't heard Dan Gurney or even Sylvester Stallone complain nor do I imagine he (Gurney) missed many shifts.

It looks like a fine product, and I have no doubt the parking brake handle is accessible. However, I'm still skeptical of the speed or ease of accessing it in an emergency situation.

Sherwood

[rcecale]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

A 20º angular drive with one joint is one thing. With two joints, as shown, the angularity is 1/2. Thus, no biggie compared to a driveshaft u-joint running @ 10º or a steering shaft with even more angularity.

That being the case, one could argue that the case for the Wevo's (or any other solid engine/transmission mount) would be all hype?

BTW, I'm not picking on Wevo, or even the Hewland shifter (which I really do like the looks of). I'm just stating my observation of what I've read here on this board. In fact, I've got a touch of bursitis in my right shoulder, and some days I'll put between 75 and 100 miles on my car...most of it city/burb driving. The angle of the stock shifter takes its toll on my shoulder in a big way. I would think the elevated shifter would be more comfortable, and a much better angle for the human body to be shifting at, much like the newer Carreras.

Randy

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by rcecale

That being the case, one could argue that the case for the Wevo's (or any other solid engine/transmission mount) would be all hype?

BTW, I'm not picking on Wevo, or even the Hewland shifter (which I really do like the looks of). I'm just stating my observation of what I've read here on this board. In fact, I've got a touch of bursitis in my right shoulder, and some days I'll put between 75 and 100 miles on my car...most of it city/burb driving. The angle of the stock shifter takes its toll on my shoulder in a big way. I would think the elevated shifter would be more comfortable, and a much better angle for the human body to be shifting at, much like the newer Carreras.

Randy

The factory shift coupler isn't a u-joint, and there's only one swivel plane in the entire shift tube assembly. The shift coupler only swivels 180º as opposed to 360º for a u-joint. That's why there can be shifting and wear issues if the shift linkage and drivetrain aren't aligned, and perhaps the source of oil leakage at the shaft seal. The shift coupler can't correct any angular difference in the left/right direction. Remember, the front end of the shift tube is in a fixed axis.

The replacement products that replace the factory shift coupler use a U-joint. Here's a comparison photo of the factory shift coupler (left) and a custom shift coupler (right) nicely fabricated by Pelican PBH (same construction as used in aftermarket products) using a Torgeson-type U-joint (center):



Sherwood

[Jeff Alton]

The hargett shifter is in a much better postion then the newer carreras. IMO it is pretty near perfect. The product is not for everyone, but it works well and is nicely designed. I am happy with mine for my application.

Cheers

[barney911rs]

Not an expert on this, but I think it's the vertical plane that is important. The Hargett moves the linkage in a horizontal plane. Or maybe I'm completly mad. I have solid engine and transmission mounts, but would never do this on a street or stock race class car. The sport mounts work well for these applications. In my case they did help the shifting when the car was under torsional load. I will eventually put a Hargett shifter in my race car primarily for the purposes of getting the shifter raised and moved back. I've heard it also shortens the throws and make it a bit notchy, but the improved hand position overcomes that. I don't recall who posted it, but someone on here raved about this product.

[Porschekid962]

The Hargett is probably the closest thing to an upside down 935 style shifter. FWIW the angularity on the 935 was minimized by flipping the trans upside down versus a stock mount. I have not shifted a Hargett setup but have shifted a fully equipped WEVO trans. To be honest a freshly built trans, pretty solid (new polybronze) mounts and SC RS short shift kit was just as positive as a wevo.

There are a couple homegrown short shift/up and back linkage/shift setups out there. The one that comes to mind is the Gunnar Racing RATT setup and a picture that is floating around on Pelican of a 935 "style" shifter. Pretty cool if you ask me, they place the shifter up near the ashtray and leave much more access to the center controls.

To each their own though.

[The Turk]

I used the Hargett shifter for the G50 conversion in my 75, I relocated the parking brake and heater controls where the stock shifter use to mount, you gotta lean forward a little to use it but it works great.
My car is a street only hotrod, I love the improved shifter position (up & back) and the way it shifts.

[rcecale]

Thanks for the lesson, Sherwood. Looking at it that way, using an actual u-joint, it really makes a lot of sense.

I'm about due to replace all my bushings anyway, I would imagine using the PBH version coupler would be, in the long run, a much better idea than re-using the stock, with new bushings. I've got sport mounts all around on my car now, new bushings and the PBH coupler should do wonders!

Randy