Mustang Dyno results

[crashmy911]

Engine is a 78sc motor rebuilt w high compression twin plugs high over lap cams electromotive ignition and ITBs.

[crashmy911]

Sorry I uploaded one pic twice

[crashmy911]

Let me know if anything looks out of ordinary.

[crashmy911]

these are at wheel numbers.

[PeteKz]

Is this a street car or track car?

The power and torque numbers are pretty good. The AFR looks too rich across most of the RPM range. Is there a particular reason for making them rich? To reduce tendency to detonation maybe?

With the Electromotive and ITB's you should be able to dial those AFRs in to the mid-12 range and get even better torque and power.

[crashmy911]

Track car

[targa72e]

Curious what cams you were using. Numbers look good. Mustang typically are more conservative than dynojet.

john

[crashmy911]

Web cams I’ll try to look back thru my paper work. The tuner told me the numbers his Dyno give are low compared to a Dyno jet

[icarp]

I think there is another 25-30 hp in your engine .
I believe this because of your AFR numbers
11.4 is too rich. Tune for 12.5-12.9. Also check ign timing 31-32 degrees
And you will have a happier engine and more HP

Ian Carpenter

[crashmy911]

I should get the tune e-mailed too me soon. I’ll figure out we’re the tuner has set advance. This is a twin plug motor if that makes any difference w advance. Do you think the reason it falls off up high is too much fuel. Cams should pull all the way to 7500. My heads are 78sc heads are the ports the limiting factor?

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by icarp

I think there is another 25-30 hp in your engine .
I believe this because of your AFR numbers
11.4 is too rich. Tune for 12.5-12.9. Also check ign timing 31-32 degrees
And you will have a happier engine and more HP

Ian Carpenter

Found this Pelican Parts thread about "tuning" you might find interesting;

Performance Tuning - The Myth -

With regard to timing, remember this is a twin-plugged ignition system (post #10) which requires a lower advance curve, i.e. less than 30 degrees.

[icarp]

My mistake, twin plug timing on 3.2 ss is aprox 26-29
Dyno is the place to set timing

OP send me a PM with ur phone
We can talk

Ian Carpenter

[icarp]

Lorne, Dave, what ever, your post is missleading and mostly wrong.
Some points are correct but very few.

Not A Good Or Well Written Article

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by icarp

Lorne, Dave, what ever, your post is missleading and mostly wrong.
Some points are correct but very few.

Not A Good Or Well Written Article

If you have valid points, then post them! You have little credibility after posting misinformation about turbo timing.

[pampadori]

241whp? I don't think you have much more ponies waiting to be found in your 3.0. Seems pretty dang healthy already!

[icarp]

I am happy to share info with the members of PPF, You Dave , Lorne , or wat ever
I fell no need or desire to educate you in any way.

Crashmy911 it was great to talk with you , we will get you on the right track.

Ian

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by icarp

I am happy to share info with the members of PPF, You Dave , Lorne , or wat ever
I fell no need or desire to educate you in any way.

Crashmy911 it was great to talk with you , we will get you on the right track.

Ian

Sorry to hear that! It's not much of a contribution to the Pelican Parts Forum. Consider reading these referenced in the post;

"Automotive Handbook - Second Addition", Bosch, 1986, pg 439, ISBN 0-89883-518-C
"Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management", Charles O. Probst, Chapter 7, pg 7,

They'll be helpful in understanding the effect of small changes in AFRs on stock internal combustion engines., which you apparently lack.

[ChrisHamilton]

I would hesitate to make blanket statements about AFR as AFR is dependent on the fuel being used. Two nearly identical motors which show the same AFR but using different fuel will not actually be the same. With the ethanol in pump gas now the amount in the fuel can vary and so will your AFR. Stoich of pure ethanol is 9:1 versus 14.7 for ethanol free pump gas. Stoich of blended fuels will vary between those numbers depending on the amount of ethanol used.

You always want to err on the richer side as doing so gives a margin of safety. OP's car seems pretty healthy as it was on the dyno. If the plugs look nice and there is no telltale evidence of it being too rich then I would be careful trying to lean it out chasing a few more hp.

[PeteKz]

Chris, you are correct about AFRs and how they vary, depending on fuel mix.

For 10% ethanol contamination, stoichiometric is about 14.13. That's why I prefer to display lambda. However, AFR in the 11 and lower ranges that the dyno print out showed is way too rich, even for preventing detonation.

Per Bosch, best economy lambda is 1.05, and best power is 0.90. Going rich to 0.85 provides additional cooling and prevention of detonation. More than that wastes fuel and loses power. For 10% ethanol/gasoline, lambda 0.85 is about AFR 12.0.

One other fine point for everyone to keep in mind: The "AFR" usually is not measured directly. Instead, an O2 sensor is used to measure lambda, and then a multiplier is applied to compute AFR. Thus, if you are running a 10% ethanol contaminated fuel, and the lambda is 1.0, the AFR meter/printout displays 14.7, even though it's really 14.1.

[ChrisHamilton]

Pete Im no Pro like you are . Taken a few EFI tuning classes, read a few books, done a couple of MS EFI builds. Fooled with a lot of Weber and Solex carbs over the years as well. So yeah I was going to mention lambda being the better figure to use in tuning. Another thing that comes to mind is that folks seem to get hung up on the AFR. You don't tune for AFR. You tune for maximum bmep or torque if you simplify it and when you reach maximum the AFR is simply a result of that.

What I'm trying to say is that AFR in addition to being fuel dependent, is also load dependant, the vaporization and combustion characteristics of the engine, operating temperature and fuel distribution of the intake. EFI helps some with the latter but many injectors are placed well upstream in aftermarket EFI setups. If an engine makes max power at say 11.8:1 and leaning it out reduces power then the correct AFR for that engine in those conditions is 11.8:1. Another engine might make max power at 12.5:1. There's no one right answer. That's why someone saying lean it out and you'll pick up power may or may not be correct.