Rust Repair to rear torsion bar area

[bavaria911]

UPDATED WITH PICs ON 20 JUN 07


Today I had a Porsche guy look at my 1970, 911T for rust repair to the floor pan (area around the pedals and along the pass door), well he told me the torsion bar area was rusty and said the cost of repair was more than the worth of the car. So my baby is a rust bucket !
I would like to talk to anyone on this BB that knows the process of welding and repair to the torsion area, the cost (just a good est.), and maybe a location in the Maryland area. Is there a link here in PP tech board?
I'd hate to sell her, she is all painted from 6 years ago (stored for the last 5 years) and I have a "ton" of parts to hang on her: MFI system - need to pull off the 46 Webers, new carpet, Koni struts, turbo T-Rode, new pedal assembly, new leather covered 911 S/RS 38mm stock steering wheel, rebuild oil tank, new GT-3 race oil pump (requires case mod to fit the 2.4), and cleaned Behr oil cooler.
Please email me a telephone number if you can guide me to the right shop or tip on welding the area.
Vr,
Scott (Bavaria)

[svandamme]

maybe post some pictures of the rust

to rusty to repair, dunno, when i was messing with my 73S, the rust was the cheapest part of the whole restore cost, engine was way more expensive

if the affected areas are prepped for welding, eg, undercoating removed, and so forth, then welding itself shouldn't take to long for a skilled welder, i dropped of mine to the shop clean of undercoating, called the next day to ask about how many weeks it would take them and got the answer that they finished welding and were prepping for paint the next day!

is it a targa or a coupe? targa's are a bit more iffy because they have no roof to keep the structural integrity in check...something that bit me in the ass with my car.. only figured out after the rebuild of the engine , that mine was sagging and my door caps were to big to fix

[Rick V]

There was a thread a while ago where a fellow had a rear T-Bar tube snap and drop the car. He did a step by step picture repair. Might be of some help. I don't remember the fellows name but the job was a fast work of art. Somebody here will be able to remember the thread
It's never too far gone to repair, just how far you want to go with it.

[randywebb]

early T is now worth many thousands of $$... so I'd really try to repair it

[TimT]

I did quite a bit of rust repair on my car, The picture quality sucks...I had a cheap digital back then.

http://www.rudtnersracing.com/update4.htm


http://www.rudtnersracing.com/update5.htm

[EarlyPorsche]

Torsion bar rust is nothing, it consists of panels that you can source reproduction from Restoration Design. I ordered panels from them, takes about a month to get but the fit and finish is perfect. Give it a shot. If you can fit them into your car a mobile welder can come to your house and finish them up.

[Bobboloo]

First you need to find the extent of "all" the rust on the car. I'll bet your floors and torsion bar area are probably not all of your rust problems.

You need to thoroughly check the inner rockers, jack plate, lower door jamb, fender joiner panels, parcel tray, suspension pan and seat bottoms.

After complete inspection then decide if you want to build on your present foundation. Weigh it's cost of repair against buying a roller project that has already addressed all the rust issues.

If you decide you want to proceed with your car then start looking for someone parting their car. There are lots of SC and Carreras with good structural sheet metal. I recently bought an 85' Carrera shell and the only parts I used were the rear quarters, rear cross member and longitudinals. The floors, seat pan/parcel tray and rear torsion bar area were absolutely rust free. I gave the shell to Dave at TRE to use for a floor and seat pan repair for one of his customers. You can call Dave and get a price from him on the torsion bar repair area if you decide to go forward.

[bavaria911]

I will take some pic's tomorrow and post them very soon. I hope that someone knows details of welding the torsion bar area and someone I can call to discuss. Dave at TRE is located where, do you have a phone number I can call?
TIA for more information,
Vr,
Bavaria

[Bobboloo]

He's in Los Angeles more specifically North Hollywood.

TRE Automotive 818-509-0258 talk to Dave or Jeremy.

[bavaria911]

[bavaria911]

Few more pictures:

[bavaria911]

Last group:

[svandamme]

put it on a rotisserie

about 5 jars of gelly paint stripper
a copper wire wheel
and some elbow grease
new floorpans from restoration design

then take it to a welder

sure, it's rust and some of it does look nasty
but i've seen way worse on this forum and it's an early 911
it's no VW Beetle or Rabbit where you can find perfect specimens all over the place for next to no money

don't get me wrong, it's a lot of work, and you'll spend some money.. a balance of work vs money , the more you do the less money required, and you'll have to decide if it's worth it for you

but it's not a complete basket case by far

i'm no welder though, but pretty sure others her with more knowledge will agree with this...

[Bobboloo]

Well I can see that the suspension pan and the door lock posts have already been replaced. (the passenger door lockpost is a 72' up panel)

The rear torsion bar area is bad. I can see bondo on it which is never a good sign. The front wheel well panels look bad at the bottom where they join the front suspension pan. You need to poke the area really hard with an ice pick and see if the area is solid.

You diffenently need some work done on the floorpan but this can be done in sections and is not hard to repair.

The only other area I don't see in your pictures that is really common to rust is the inner rocker panels. They are hidden between the inner longitude and the outer rocker panel but a portion can be examined underneath the car. It is about a 2 inch curved strip between the outer rocker and floor pan. This area needs the ice pick test as well. It is an important structural member.

Aside from the critical structural areas there are some not so critical areas to check for rust.

They are:

1. Rear parcel shelf
2. Rear seat pan
3. Fender joiner panels
4. Bottom corners of the front and rear windshields.

Sorry to throw all of this at you but it's important to collect all the info on the condition of your chassis before you proceed.

[Miguel Antonett]

Sell it and go on...

[Allenk]

To me it depends on how soon you want it done, if you can do any yourself and if your looking for a project or a driver at this point. Mine was pretty bad and I'm still working on it years later but that's what I wanted, kind of a way to get away for quiet time. There certainly seems to be a lot of parts to sell off or strip off and put on a more solid chasis. All the same I'd try to fix it. Let me know if you sell, I'd be interested.

[bavaria911]

Gents,
I am in no rush. The car will not start as of today, it's been stored for the past 5.5 years in the very same spot. I'll be getting the tank and fuel pump cleaned-out and try to drive her to a garage to begin a plan to weld once I have an expert inspect the depth of the rust. Can I buy torsion bar areas from a newer Porsche, one with Galvinized steel and weld into place or must I custom weld and repair ?
TIA,
Bavaria (Scott)

[Bobboloo]

Cars in way worse condition have been restored so there's no reason to think this car can't be done. It's just good to know what your getting into.

Later year sheet metal can be used to fix the torsion tube longitude area up thru 89'. The torsion bar tube changed in 87' for the G50 tranny but I believe the torsion tube longitude panel is the same.

[Grady Clay]

Bobby,

You bring up a good point. If Scott has to replace the torsion bar tube,
is it desirable to use the ’87-’89 G50 version? I think the only
additional change necessary is the shorter torsion bars. I think every
earlier transmission wil install as normal – you don’t [u]have[/i] to use
a G50.



Above is basically ’69-’87 (this actually is ’74-> with the attachment to the tunnel).

Below is for ’87-’89 for the Carrera “C” and Turbo “T”. (Note the
different mounting points for the trailing arms.)

"
(C) Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche A.G.


Best,
Grady

[JSDSKI]

I've got a complete torsion bar section from a 86 cabriolet available if you decide on the repair.