The shop made a mistake, but then a fantastic recovery

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Hello Pelicans,

I bought my 1985 Carrera in March, after getting a PPI from Memphis Motor Werks. The previous owner was asking $16.5k for the car, telling me it was in perfect condition. The PPI told me the car needed brakes, tires (dry rot), alignment, heater/fresh air blowers, air conditioning parts/freon and 3 oil leaks (oil return tubes, oil pressure switch and thermostat O-ring) and a 30k service for estimated $5,700.00 for the job. I offered $12k for the car and 3 weeks later the owner came back to me (his best offer).

The car went into the shop immediately for tires/brakes/alignment. I wanted to work on the car, so I did the 30k service of changing the oil (Mobil One 15/50), Swepco 201 for the transmission, etc. The oil leak seemed to be coming from the drivers side return tubes. The heat exchangers were in the way of easily fixing it, so I brought it to Memphis Motor Werks for the oil return tubes and the airconditioning. I replaced the catalytic converter with a bypass and added a sport muffler and then I noticed the car was smoking.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

The car continued to drip on the driver's side so I took it back. The oil return tubes were installed correctly. There was wet oil on the cooling tin above the oil return tubes. A closer inspection with better lighting revealed sludge at the base gasket that had been collecting there for a long time. The previous owner's receipts showed that the car was leaking oil in 2004, he had the oil return tubes changed, and also oil lines etc., but his repairs did not stop the leaks so he quit driving it (1,000 miles since 2004). The catalytic converter must have been absorbing some of the smoke from the worn valve guides.

The picture was getting clear for me. The engine had to come out of the car. I was in shock and dismayed. I had already spent $6k and now it needed a major top end overhaul. I talked to the owners and expressed my grief. I was imagining being stuck with a bill for $6-10k depending on the condition of the cylinders/pistons.

Memphis Motor Werks sponsors the local PCA chapter, which is how I found out about them. MMW had done the service on my Porsche 924s and I was always happy with the work. I let them know that I did not have a budget for the repair and that I would have to put it on plastic. They offered me a 25% discount and promised to do the job right for as low a price as possible. I asked them if I could do some professional photography for them in exchange for a portion of my bill. They were happy to work with me and I found out that Memphis Motor Werks is owned and operated by stand up guys.

I was given complete access to the garage while the work was being done. Anytime I wanted to come and shoot pictures, I was welcome.

The put dye in the crankcase that would show with a flourescent light where the oil was leaking from.


With the engine out and on the stand, it was easy to see the leaks.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

This is the top of the motor behind the intake manifolds.





So, I documented the teardown. The manifold gaskets were cracked and brittle.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

The Pistons and Cylinders showed no wear, so I dodged a bullet. The clutch was getting down to the rivets, so while we were in there, added a new clutch.

Memphis Motor Werks has their own machine shop and all of the other equipment like sonic cleaning tanks and bead blaster. My grimy old engine was turning into bright new aluminum.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

They cleaned up my transmission and machined my old flywheel.





The heads were done on a precision machine.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

The heads got new valve guides, the valves were precision cut for the heads and everything was measure to specification.





And everything got put back together...



This all took place in two weeks time. I could not have imagined the job going this fast from diagnosis to cure. The car feels like it is brand new, just driving off the show room floor.

This whole experience could have been a disaster. And, we have all heard horror stories here on Pelican. Memphis Motor Werks gets the highest praise from me. They made an honest mistake on the PPI, but their recovery was nothing short of fantastic. They fixed my car on time and on budget, and let me document all the work while it was being performed. Most shops would not let you even see their work area, and especially not take photographs. Memphis Motor Werks is clean and everyone pitches in to keep it that way. I have pictures of of their mechanics using the same machine Walmarts use to clean floors.

I snapped about 500 pictures and made them a copy to use for their website. My words will inevitably fall short of telling you how delighted, happy and delirious I am now that my 911 is finally all that I wanted it to be.

[SCWDP911]

Jeffrey,

Nice to hear you talking and sharing about the experience. I know when we talked about it before, it was aggravating and maybe a bit embarassing for you, but sounds like it all is good now. All I know is your car sounds smokin' hot from behind you now, and it happily is not due to an oil leak!

BTW, did you get my email about the Fun Run on the 23rd? Someone else on the dist list said the text was all blank on theirs. Just checking to see if it was an epidemic or not.

[jester911]

Great story. It is always refreshing to hear the good outcomes since we so often hear the bad.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Shane,

Thank you. It is nice to have friends to share good and bad news with. Only another Porsche owner can know the grief of being broken down with such an expensive repair. I sold my "no issues" 924s for about the same price as this motor rebuild.

It was embarassing because I am always one to advise the other Pelican newbies to get a PPI, and then budget $4k for a surprise expense. It was not MMW's fault that the motor was in the condition it was in, and they could have reacted differently. Memphis Motor Werks deeply discounted the job, and I am truly grateful. They have me as a customer for life.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Jester,

The Internet is an amazing thing. If you treat your customers right, that news should travel as fast as the bad news. I have read about so many bad experiences. My heart is full and I am so glad to say something good about people.

This is their web address: http://www.memphismotorwerks.com/

This is a picture of their shop floor...

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Gratuitous photograph of Porsche in the wild...

[radiosimon]

great story...thanks for sharing!

[the]

Originally posted by JeffreyNMemphis


It was embarassing because I am always one to advise the other Pelican newbies to get a PPI, and then budget $4k for a surprise expense.

Not sure why you are embarassed - you took your own advice and got a PPI from a good shop, which is why you ended up coming out ok.

It's yet another example of why PPI from a good shop is impt. Had you not done it, it would have been a disaster.

Great story and kudos to MMW. They sound like true stand up people.

[azasadny]

Jeffrey,
Great news and thanks for sharing it! Isn't it a fantastic thing to find honest, knowledgeable professionals who treat customers the way they should? I'm fortunate that I've had a similar experience with Tab Tanner at Autobahn Garage in Findlay, OH and I know EXACTLY what you went through and how happy you are now! Get out there and enjoy that beautiful car!

[Wil Ferch]

Maybe I'm dense....

Just what was the mistake that the shop made...not finding *everything* that could end-up being a problem ??? They indicated oil leaks and the obvious places they found where they were coming from. I'm sure what they found helped the buyer establish a more proper price from a seller who was obviously very wrong in saying the car was perfect. I'm sure thousands of dollars fell from the original asking price....a fair trade-off using a PPI that found 98% of the problems that *did* exist.

I thought a PPI establishes a baseline on finding problems and providing a $ estimate for their fixes.... not a guarantee that every possible cause was found. Life is a bit more complicated than that. What sort of accountability and ( more importantly) financial responsibility is a shop to take when performing a PPI? What is the expected standard? ...perfection ?( that is...finding *everything*?).

I'll admit to reading this thread quickly so I may have missed some obvious points. Not to be argumentative..but opening up this discussion for clarity on what to expect of a PPI, and what accountability a shop has if it didn't find ALL issues ??

- Wil

[syncroid]

Great story and documentation Jeffrey. I agree with Wil on how much a shop is supposed to be accountable for. I had a 1978 911SC come into the shop I was working at a few years ago for a PPI. The car was low miles and showed fantastic inside and out. We did a compression test on it and that came out very even. I DID notice that the cars idle was not as smooth as I would like to see. I noted it on the work order. I asked the perspective buyer if he wanted me to do a leak down test as well. He declined. He ended up buying the car and brought it into the shop a week or so later for a full service. When I pulled the lower valve covers off during the service I found two broken head studs laying there. I called the guy and told him what I found. He was not upset because there was no way I could have known that during the PPI.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Hi Wil,

You are not dense. We all know that there are no guarantees when buying these cars. No mechanic has a crystal ball that can tell of some future failure of mechanical parts. I was reluctant to even call what happened a mistake, but they missed seeing oil leaking at the base gasket. I specifically mentioned my concerns regarding the health of the engine and paid extra for a compression and leakdown test. The PPI said that the oil leaks were ABC and cost Z to fix, which is what I based my purchase offer on. I paid for a two hour inspection and professional advice, not unlike a doctor or lawyer's advice. If they would have seen that the engine tin was wet and the sludge/grime build up at the base gasket, they might have told me to expect a top end rebuild plus the other stuff potentially costing XZY. I could have bought a different car with lower miles in better condition for the same money.

What is the expected standard? Since this is a discussion forum, tell us all what the standard is? If they found 98% of the problem, then it should only cost me 2% more than estimated to repair. They must have found 50% of the problem by that reasoning, which was about $6k off the actual cost. (edit: was not feeling warm and fuzzy at this point)

Anyone could have missed that oil leak. Obviously, the previous owner's mechanics missed it, because PO paid for oil return tubes, new oil lines and fittings, and it still leaked. That owner just gave up and quick driving the car in 2004 and finally sold it in disgust to me for $12k (practically a disposal price)

The last thing I want to be is argumentative, but what accountability does anyone have for their professional work? Their reputation, which is fully intact at Memphis Motor Werks as far as I am concerned. I would bring my car back to them tomorrow and forever after because they have integrity.

What financial responsibility do they have? That question has two answers. (1) To me the client, a shop should be able to say that they did the work they charged me for and did it correctly. If they didn't do it right the first time, they should fix it (ie; wheel alignment; car not tracking straight, shop re-aligns it). In this case the financial responsibility was not bleeding me dry for my last dollar to fix my car. MMW treated me fairly and still made a profit, I did not get anything free nor did I ask for that. They are happy and I am happy with the discount they gave me and the work they performed. (2) The other answer to financial responsibility is to themselves. If a shop gets a reputation for shoddy work and screwing customers, they won't be around for very long. How many customers have been turned away from car dealers and repair shops because of bad reports here on Pelican and Rennlist? I chose to post my overwhelmingly positive experience today after reading about the Porsche owner in Pennsylvania, who left his car over night and had it totaled by the drunken shop owner.

I expect Memphis Motor Werks will read this. Other mechanics might get defensive. But I say MMW did the right thing and turned a bad situation into a WIN-WIN situation. I have read many true reports on the Internet about business owners acting like scoundrels. I am telling the truth to anyone that wants to listen, about people with integrity that did the right thing and gained a customer for life. My car wears a license bracket that says "Serviced by Memphis Motor Werks", and I will continue to wear it proudly.

[SCWDP911]

Well said Jeffrey. I think you did the right things here. Wil brought up a thought for me in the questions he was asking. There is SOOOO much emphasis on this and other boards about not buying a 911 without a PPI. I think a lot of people read that and falsely place too many eggs in that basket, thinking, "well, if the Porsche expert that did the PPI said it was good, it must be good". My comments here should not be taken as an argument for or against any other poster's point of view - I respect Wil's remarks. Knowing Jeffrey the short time I have, I would be willing to guess that he also respects Wil's remarks. That said, I think this whole thing has brought up a great thread that might help other potential buyers in the future to know what should, and should not, be expected from a PPI. Hope this is taken the right way by all concerned.

Cheers!

[Gene Wilkes]

Great story w/great ending! Wish they were all like that!

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by syncroid
Great story and documentation Jeffrey. I agree with Wil on how much a shop is supposed to be accountable for. I had a 1978 911SC come into the shop I was working at a few years ago for a PPI. The car was low miles and showed fantastic inside and out. We did a compression test on it and that came out very even. I DID notice that the cars idle was not as smooth as I would like to see. I noted it on the work order. I asked the perspective buyer if he wanted me to do a leak down test as well. He declined. He ended up buying the car and brought it into the shop a week or so later for a full service. When I pulled the lower valve covers off during the service I found two broken head studs laying there. I called the guy and told him what I found. He was not upset because there was no way I could have known that during the PPI.

Hmm, as a bare minimum, I recommend that a PPI include an inspection of the lower exhaust studs. In fact, I would consider it negligent if there was a broken head stud and a PPI did not catch it. Maybe I'm picky, but at least that's how I do things...

I appreciate the fact that you're happy with the car and the shop, but I'm not getting the warm and fuzzy on this whole story. Maybe there are details that I'm missing. In general, you should never have the PPI done by a shop that will be performing the work. That is a direct conflict of interest.

While oil leaks are annoying, and excessive ones can cause problems, in general the car is fine to drive with them leaking oil. Of course, I'm not there, so I'm only speculating. Still, I would recommend that everyone get a 2nd opinion when having major work done...

-Wayne