I'm so sad!

[sabeo.m]

I got the word back from my mechanic after dropping it off for the chain tensioner up grade. First off, i believe my car runs great, it hasn't given me a single major problem yet since having it for 3 months and after performing the little projects that my dad and I can tackle from Wayne's book it runs even better! When i took the car to get a PPI, the mechanic from a very reputable place (the best in the Midwest) i must add, told me everything was fine. Engine, transmission, etc. He told me i wouldn't have a problem and could drive the car the whole summer. Well, i got the phone call telling me that i needed my engine rebuilt because of broken head studs. he suggested to do everything. A major over hall, due to the fact that i have 130k on the motor and it has never been touched besides basic maintenance. He quoted me ball park 8 to 9k. I know he is not pulling a fast one on me, i trust them (don't know if this is a high quote??). But, i also know that if i had the ability to do it myself, it would be a lot cheaper. So, knowing that i can't afford the rebuild at this time , I'm just gonna have them do the chain tensioner's and the valve adjustment, and pray to god that it stays together until i get the money.. Your opinion's and suggestions are much appreciated!

[slodave]

How many studs? Multiple on each cylinder or one off a couple of cylinders?

[sabeo.m]

Originally Posted by slodave

How many studs? Multiple on each cylinder or one off a couple of cylinders?

He said 4

[sabeo.m]

Originally Posted by sabeo.m

He said 4

not sure where..

[snbush67]

No opinions, no suggestions only condolences my forum friend. I don't know enough about this to offer an opinion on the rebuild, but it seems that you should be able to get by with just replacing the broken studs and driving it, hell for 8-9000 dollars you should be able to get something fresh from a dismantler, unless you are planning on some larger PC and doing some major upgrades I would simply at the most shoot for a top end. Ok so that was a suggestion but an uneducated one.

[craigyirush]

Why didn't the mechanic who did the PPI check the head studs?

[MotoSook]

Save your money and don't do the chain tensioner, just get the safety stops for the tensioners you have now.

As for the valve adjustment, you can go ahead and do it....but wait.

Sure your engine is at 130K, but it sounds like you just want a runner on a limited budget. Having said that, I would recommend that you just pull the heads off and do a low bucks topend reseal and replace the broken studs. Folks will jump on me for suggesting this, but I remember when I was a kid and didn't have enough money to fix my 911. The shop I took it too basically told me the same thing you were told, and I ended up parking my car until I got out of college. That shop as it turns out, was full of BS and their tech didn't know anymore about a 911 than a UTI grad would!

When you open up the engine, you can inspect for worn parts. If they are too far gone, then you'll have to do somethign about it, but chances are you should be able to bolt things back together. An SC engine that has had good oiling won't have worn so much that what I'm suggesting won't work for you. When you bolt it all back together, it will be better than the state it is in now, right? You will have to resist the "while you are in there" bug, otherwise you will end up spending $3-5K on just the topend.

You won't have spent $8K. You'll do your own work, and you'll learn about your engine/car, so you won't have a shop tell you you need to spend $8-9K when you really don't need to.

[cstreit]

Too add to what's been said, 130k on the bottom of an SC isn't the end of the world. If the oil-changes and maintenance were done regularly, I'll bet the bearings are in pretty good shape. If you had good oil-pressure then chances are it's ok. Your mechanic isn't steering your wrong, but you could probably get away without a bottom end, and just by doing the top for another 50k miles. ...you are increasing the risk of larger issues down the line.

8-9is a good price for the whole thing, but since most of the work is already done (drop, induction, top end diassemble, etc..) I am thinking that skipping a bottom end might not save as much as you think.

Find out where the broken studs are. If it's one on every cylinder that's better than 3 on 1, and 1 on another. Maybe you could limp by for a year with it...

[john walker's workshop]

at 130k, SCs need a valve grind because of worn valve guides. pretty much the rule of thumb. they don't generally need a full rebuild. with the extra parts and labor to replace the lower row of dilivar studs with steel ones, you should be able to get away under $5K.

[cattledog]

I know this news is tough, been there. Resist the urge to just drive it though. You'll be damaging the heads at the sealing surface each time you do on the weakend cylinders. Try to relax and think this through, with the help of Wayne's book and folks on this board, you could tackle stud replacement on your own with little other work (assuming no other major issues)and have a good runner again for quite a while and much less $outlay.

[Ken911]

You would be surprised at how much you can learn through this and the rennlist forums. Once you have done your own engine drop for the first time there is no going back. Drop it pull the heads replace the studs send the heads out. and maybe re ring it. should be good till you can affored a full rebuild a few years from now, when your grown, away from home and havent been bankrupted by your own kids yet.

[sabeo.m]

Originally Posted by Ken911

You would be surprised at how much you can learn through this and the rennlist forums. Once you have done your own engine drop for the first time there is no going back. Drop it pull the heads replace the studs send the heads out. and maybe re ring it. should be good till you can affored a full rebuild a few years from now, when your grown, away from home and havent been bankrupted by your own kids yet.

That's just it! I am grown up... I'm 32 yrs old with a wife, 2 kids and a new house! I can't afford to give 9-g's to some guy because he telling me i have broken head studs. Sure, if money wasn't a concern i would give him 25k to make the car new, thats how much i love my SC! So, the hell with it, I'm gonna do the rebuild my self and become a well educated 911 purist, an elitist! I'm gonna make my yuppie neighbors hate me! Thank you all, my battle has only begun!!

[snbush67]

Yes...! I am opening up an Sammy Adamas "Octoberfest Lager" in honor of this great moment, and am knocking on wood that I won't have to make a decision like this any time soon..

Godspeed Sabeo!

[dshepp806]

Man-o-man! I feel for you and have had a few sleepless nights as a first time 911 owner, during my first 3 months, thinking of worst case scenarios (that's what we EE's do...) . I bought an 89 that had 112K on the clock at purchase...this car had a top AND bottom rebuild at 97K. Engine has ALWAYS run strongly, all work done by a highly regarded P-wrench....
After one religiously attends Pelican University (NIGHTLY),..learning more and more and more.....from the great people here,...it is kinda' troublesome (for us NON-WRENCHES). I spoke with several people who were fine with it, others who questioned WTF would you be cracking a 3.2 L case, other than a #8 problem......all keenly interested in WHY the bottom rebuild happened, as this is (apparently) considered a bit out of the norm, EXCEPT for certain conditions. In any case, knowing the reputation of this wrench (with Porsches) , I ultimately welcomed this " event " Paying top dollar,..for this baby..,..comforted in knowing my engine has MANY miles to go before I will ever need to do anything (famous last words) ,..attending to 3K oil changes with proper oil,..tending to everything she needs....

Back to your "mood" response to it,..I would probably take the same approach,..defiantly proclaiming "I will handle this, personally"....Budgets matter with me, as well. Geeze,..to have a brand new 8K - 9K $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ need is something that needs to be planned out (for me). To engage a rebuild by myself would be questionable, at best. Reading through posts, reminds me of what I DON't know,..that the P-wrenches do EVERY DAY....not to be taken lightly...the smallest mistake coould be even more costly...It's frightening, in a way....THANK GOD FOR THIS BOARD,..there exists no better group that I participate in than THIS ONE. I (AND MY CAR) benefit from the words spoken here...It's priceless....can't thank everyone enough.........

I wish you the best in your challenge at hand. Take no SH^T and get a plan together...people here will help you.

Good luck!!

[Hawks911]

You go, Sabeo!

[Max2.0]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

at 130k, SCs need a valve grind because of worn valve guides. pretty much the rule of thumb. they don't generally need a full rebuild. with the extra parts and labor to replace the lower row of dilivar studs with steel ones, you should be able to get away under $5K.

I think you may be confusing the 3.0 Liters with the 3.2 Liters....
I have not heard that 3.0's need valve work at 130K...
In fact, once the Dilavar issues are addressed, the 3.0's seem to run 2 to 300K with fresh oil and reasonable maintenance...
Now the 3.2's.... There was an engine with an appetite for valve guides and all related issues!!! Even as low as 50 to 60K...

Chime in, SC folks!

[DanielDudley]

I'll bet that there are at least a few guys in Chicago that would help you with this Sabeo.

Of course finding a new mechanic who is in a different tax bracket would be another option.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Souk

Save your money and don't do the chain tensioner, just get the safety stops for the tensioners you have now.

As for the valve adjustment, you can go ahead and do it....but wait.

Sure your engine is at 130K, but it sounds like you just want a runner on a limited budget. Having said that, I would recommend that you just pull the heads off and do a low bucks topend reseal and replace the broken studs. Folks will jump on me for suggesting this, but I remember when I was a kid and didn't have enough money to fix my 911. The shop I took it too basically told me the same thing you were told, and I ended up parking my car until I got out of college. That shop as it turns out, was full of BS and their tech didn't know anymore about a 911 than a UTI grad would!

When you open up the engine, you can inspect for worn parts. If they are too far gone, then you'll have to do somethign about it, but chances are you should be able to bolt things back together. An SC engine that has had good oiling won't have worn so much that what I'm suggesting won't work for you. When you bolt it all back together, it will be better than the state it is in now, right? You will have to resist the "while you are in there" bug, otherwise you will end up spending $3-5K on just the topend.

You won't have spent $8K. You'll do your own work, and you'll learn about your engine/car, so you won't have a shop tell you you need to spend $8-9K when you really don't need to.

Probably the best and most reasonable advice. A lot of money spent on tensioners in this case seems not the most logical path. And do a leak down test before beginning any work so you know what your targets are.

Originally Posted by Max2.0

I think you may be confusing the 3.0 Liters with the 3.2 Liters....

Chime in, SC folks.

Maybe I'd not question JW's wisdom. He surely has seen enough engines in his time to know the difference. There, I chimed in.

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by Max2.0

Chime in, SC folks!

Click the link at the bottom of JW's post. I'm sure you mean well with your post, but when John Walker speaks... smart Pelicans listen.

[kqw]

I just love these stories about perfectly running cars going into the shop and getting diagnosed as needing an engine rebuild...I just love it....

Get a 2nd opinion. The reason I say this is that you previously a favorable PPI and the car has been running fine. All of a sudden you a complete engine rebuild???

Sounds like a "Reputable shop" in this area that snags unsuspecting customers into $2,500.00 major services on '84 - '89 Carrera"s.