Triad mufflers- what's the feedback from users?

[rfuerst911sc]

Hey guys what is your experience with Triad mufflers? I have a project car that I'm either going to go Triad or another m&k. So what is the scoop good and bad with the Triads? This will be on a 3.0 with headers. Thanks

[Joe Bob]

He's a one guy operation. He makes what he makes and is not very open to suggestions. You get it ONE way, his way. He rarely answers the phone, he has another job, he makes them to order, his muffs are a hobby/sideline.

I had an idea for a custom 3.6 cat/muffler for SC conversions using 993 heat exchangers. I was willing to send him parts, measurements, drawings and such and he said no way....then I see a post on him making the same muffler/cat "I" suggested in another thread.

A LOT of people like his stuff, particularly the 914 crowd. I'm a little irked at him....but don't let me stop you. I've also got an unreasonable hard on for Patrick Motor Sports as well....and people swear by (PMS) his over priced piece of crap parts.....but I digress....I have a long memory. PMS has screwed many a customer on defects on custom parts. Do a search on 914/6 engine mounts if you don't believe me.

Good luck on your choices......I've never dealt with M&K....

I DO know that mufflers are CHEAP. A decent muff shop can do wonders with a welder and a tube bender. That's what I ended up doing. Perfect fit, no leaks and if somethings screws up I can drive down and get it fixed and yell at him.....I am constantly amazed at the prices people pay for the bling bling muffs offered in the magazines....geez, the ricer/NOPI crowd really have screwed with our minds....

OR......just hang a dual in, dual outlet Leistritz muffler.....they come in stainless....Dansk makes a nice one too. If you like the big dick look, hang a set of supertrapps out the back.....you can tune the back pressure by adding or deleting discs.

The Dansk/Leistritz can also be gutted and you Sporterize the muff with two outlets that exit under the license plate as opposed to the sides.

[Chocaholic]

I have to disagree with just about everything MikeZ said about Triad. Dave built my custom setup for my 3.6 conversion....made a new jig based on the cat that I sent him, and sent the cat back with tips welded on so I could use it for smog. I enjoyed frequent communication via e-mail and phone. Sure, he has a day job, but he does the Triad thing because he enjoys it. The fit was excellent and he delivered above and beyond the call of duty. After 2 years of use, the rig still looks like new and sounds awesome.

[Joe Bob]

Your free to disagree...as you have....but the fact is, I brought the idea to him on the 3.6. He declined, then he ended up making it for someone else, as well as you, later on.

Like I said, I'm irked. Not like I'm gonna punch him out if I ever see him. I didn't like how I was blown off with an idea and then see it being produced down the road.....I'm extremely happy with my alternative and wish him all the best.

I will not, however, recommend him.....

[Superman]

Dave (Triad) is a working Carpenter. That is likely to change, but he's been doing it for a lifetime and he's not ready, yet, to forego those impressive Carpenter paychecks. He is a very good Carpenter.

Good enough to know that a decision to make a final exhaust system for an early (SC) car using a later (3.6) engine with goofy-shaped flanges (two types, actually, depending on the particular 3.6 engine) and flanges that are not at a 90-degree angle to either the engine center line or the axles. Those are "flying" flanges we're talking about, like the turbo mounting in a 930 exhaust system. It's a compound-miter cut, if you will. Eventually, he scored a customer (must have been you, Mike) who provided some of the dimensional stuff Dave would need. And that's without the CAR. Try building an exhaust system where somebody tells you about the engine and the car and sends you a CAT. Okay, 'nuff.

I have two mufflers that fit my SC with early ('73) heat exchangers. One is a modified stock hotdog thing, which sounds and performs well. And.....I sometimes use it on long trips (several hours or more, if there will be a female in the car) because it's gentler-sounding. But......when I return, I put the Triad right back on. Why? Because it's perhaps the sweetest sounding engine I have ever heard, when heard through the Triad. The sound is fully HALF the fun of driving my car.

There is a caveat: I am a personal friend of Dave's. FWIW. But again, and having said that, I believe the Triad is the finest performance exhaust you can put on these cars.

[Superman]

I understand, Mike. I've been pissed off too. But......Dave is simply not going to make every exhaust system for every frankenstein Porsche. And again, mating those goofy 3.6 heat exchangers with an exhaust system that needs to fit a car that was designed around an altogether different engine and exhaust system.......well, perhaps you are not fully appreciating what that takes. Dave knows his stuff well enough to "estimate" the job. I have seen him make the jigs and whatnot. That first 3.6/Carrera exhaust system he made took him, and another long-time Porsche guy, many many many hours to finish. I had no idea how complex it is until I watched them.

And frankly, I was stunned when that first one was shipped and the customer report came back that it fit perfectly. One more time: Dave had neither the engine nor the car to work with!!!!!!

[JP911]

My experience with Triad was also a good one. He built me a custom 2-in 2-out race muffler for use with 993 HEs on an impact bumper car. He had apparently built one for a longhood, but never for an accordian bumper car. His first muffler was off a little in the tip placement, and after providing him with measurements and recommendations for changes he fabbed a new muffler and had it shipped before I could return the first one. The other unique feature on my setup is a "hidden" second tip on the right side, as I wanted to retain a stock appearance.

The muffler sounds great, performs well, but it's a little on the heavy side. I also have an M&K for the 993 HEs, which is far lighter, but it was just too loud for street use. But, M&K has reworked their design and I have to say that Ben is an absolute pleasure to work with.

[dd74]

Without getting into the personalities of the builder, designer and customers of Triad (Dave), I'll say that I owned one for about three years, and was very pleased with it when I had a 3.0.

When I swapped the 3.0 for a newly-built modified 2.7, the Triad became quite loud - possibly as a result of the compression of the 2.7, among other things. I've since had a Dansk, M&K, and now a stock muffler, which I'm happiest with.

Build quality of the Triad is outstanding. It's a strong, super tough muffler. But it's also heavy - tipping the scales at about 28 pounds IIRC, while the stock muffler is 24 pounds or so.

Also, Dave does customize his mufflers. He can create single out or dual out mufflers. He can even create "concourse" dual-out mufflers, where the right-side outlet is hidden from view.

Some have criticized the circuitous route the Triad takes to expel exhaust gases, noting it to create a potential horsepower loss. However, I have never found the Triad to make less horsepower than any other muffler available, including the stock Bischoff/Leistritz.

This leads me to believe that with the 911, the potential for horsepower gain or loss comes from the header/heat exchangers, leaving the muffler to do just that, muffle.

At any rate, the Triad is a damn good replacement muffler if you want more sound than stock, or can't find a stock muffler.

[rfuerst911sc]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Sounds like the Triad is good quality but that 28 lb. weight is a turn off. The M&K is 14 lbs. and all SS. You guys have given me something to think about.

[Dantilla]

I have a Triad on my 3.2 with SSI's, w/no cat.

Very happy.

When I first got the car running, I attended our local PCA Skills day as a student, even though I've instructed for them. Great way to get solid seat time in a new car.

The chief instructor told me several times during the day that my car was the best-sounding car there. He loved to be near it when it reached the upper levels of the rev range.

Dave is a local autocrosser. He noticed a bit of paint has burned off my Triad, and it's bugging him that I haven't let him repaint it for free. Nobody notices except Dave. He's a great guy. I highly recommend a Traid muffler.

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

I have a Triad on my 3.2 with SSI's, w/no cat.

Very happy.

When I first got the car running, I attended our local PCA Skills day as a student, even though I've instructed for them. Great way to get solid seat time in a new car.

The chief instructor told me several times during the day that my car was the best-sounding car there. He loved to be near it when it reached the upper levels of the rev range.

Dave is a local autocrosser. He noticed a bit of paint has burned off my Triad, and it's bugging him that I haven't let him repaint it for free. Nobody notices except Dave. He's a great guy. I highly recommend a Traid muffler.

Others have talked about a drone/resonance between 2000-3000 rpm's do you find that to be true on your setup? Do you have the "street" or track version? I assume you have the 2 in 2 out right?

[IROC]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Others have talked about a drone/resonance between 2000-3000 rpm's do you find that to be true on your setup? Do you have the "street" or track version? I assume you have the 2 in 2 out right?

I have a street Triad with SSIs on my 3.2. No drone at all. In fact, it is very quiet. I actually talked to Dave about making me a version that was louder and more free-flowing for the track. Initially he was very responsive and even gave me several options for customizing the muffler, but then I never heard from him again. I left several voice and emails over about a one month period of time and he never responded so I finally gave up and bought some of Ben's race cans.

The Triad muffler is very well built, but it is heavy. Mine weighs 24 lbs. The exhaust "note" is great, but it is a very quiet muffler.

[RarlyL8]

Geez MikeZ, I can't imagine anyone trying to avoid such a pleasant disposition, HA!

The Triad muffler is little more than a couple of cherry bombs and some bent pipe. That is where the wieght comes from. Dave has a nice product for his nitch market and the luxury to pick and choose what projects he takes on and who he sells to. That's a great gig in my book.

[Joe Bob]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Geez MikeZ, I can't imagine anyone trying to avoid such a pleasant disposition, HA!

The Triad muffler is little more than a couple of cherry bombs and some bent pipe. That is where the wieght comes from. Dave has a nice product for his nitch market and the luxury to pick and choose what projects he takes on and who he sells to. That's a great gig in my book.

Who me?

To meet me is to love me.....I just don't like being jerked around. The guy asked for a recommendation and I responded. Now all the PNW posters are disputing my assessment.

OK...they have that right. My opinion of his business ethics still stands.

I also AGREE with YOU, that his product is nothing more than old school cherry bombs and mild steel pipes. It's NOT rocket science. It's a freaking muffler....

There are more choices than Triad or M&K for a 3.0 and headers. I listed my experiences with the 3.0 and also my personal business experiences with the principal at Triad.....

hey, I know, let's shoot the messenger.....

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by mikez

Who me?

To meet me is to love me.....
. . .

But Mike, I've seen you eat...
(Mickey Ds at GAF...
I saw mothers protecting their children from losing limbs in the tormado like suction! And those weren't even your fries!!!)

[Joe Bob]

Sure that wasn't the In and Out Burger?

I/We got tossed because we "Mooned" the customers thru the window?

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Others have talked about a drone/resonance between 2000-3000 rpm's do you find that to be true on your setup? Do you have the "street" or track version? I assume you have the 2 in 2 out right?

No drone. This car is not my daily driver. It is my autocross/ hooligan car. There is no engine sound pad, and I still haven't re-installed the interior. The car has no radio.

Still, I drive the car to/from autocrosses, and don't find it too loud, even with no interior. But I'm one of the weirdos who likes the music a flat-six sings.

[mb911]

what is the cost on Triad these days?

[IROC]

Originally Posted by mb911

what is the cost on Triad these days?

Mine was around $325 about a year ago.

[Superman]

Dave (Triad) is a working Carpenter. That is likely to change, but he's been doing it for a lifetime and he's not ready, yet, to forego those impressive Carpenter paychecks. He is a very good Carpenter.

Good enough to know that a decision to make a final exhaust system for an early (SC) car using a later (3.6) engine with goofy-shaped flanges (two types, actually, depending on the particular 3.6 engine) and flanges that are not at a 90-degree angle to either the engine center line or the axles. Those are "flying" flanges we're talking about, like the turbo mounting in a 930 exhaust system. It's a compound-miter cut, if you will. Eventually, he scored a customer (must have been you, Mike) who provided some of the dimensional stuff Dave would need. And that's without the CAR. Try building an exhaust system where somebody tells you about the engine and the car and sends you a CAT. Okay, 'nuff.

I have two mufflers that fit my SC with early ('73) heat exchangers. One is a modified stock hotdog thing, which sounds and performs well. And.....I sometimes use it on long trips (several hours or more, if there will be a female in the car) because it's gentler-sounding. But......when I return, I put the Triad right back on. Why? Because it's perhaps the sweetest sounding engine I have ever heard, when heard through the Triad. The sound is fully HALF the fun of driving my car.

There is a caveat: I am a personal friend of Dave's. FWIW. But again, and having said that, I believe the Triad is the finest performance exhaust you can put on these cars.