911MAX -- 911 Tuning has begun!

rberry951 · 10-17-2007, 06:23 AM

I spent last weekend re-writing parts of MaxTune to allow for the 3.2L 911 map geometry. I needed to add some fields anyway because the 968s are vastly different as well.

Here's a stock '86 USA 911 Carrera fuel map:

And this is the ignition/timing map:

I began tuning straight away, and as of today am on version 9 of the 911MAX chip.

I have the stock image in the Maxtronic as well and go back and forth between it and the image I'm working on to 'feel' the differences. I hope to get it back on the dyno next week to finish up the wide open throttle maps, then I'll work on the part throttle maps a bit more, and we'll have a new chip on the market! If I had to use volunteers cars for this, it would have taken many months to get where I have in three days.

Some examples of the changes I notice. I can launch in second gear, I can launch in first gear without touching the gas pedal. If I'm traveling at 2800-3000 rpms I can just barely touch the gas to pass another car as opposed to downshifting or flooring it to bring on ample power.

In wide open throttle runs, I used to feel the push back in the seat at about 4800 rpm, now I feel it at 4000. I have changed the rev limiter from 6520 to 6840, though the production chip will be 6760 unless somone requests it higher.

The car also idles very smoothly at 850-900 rpm, whereas with the stock chip it lumbers at 780-850. Cold start is immediate, as is warm. Doesn't sound like it makes a complete revolution before the car fires up.

I'll post the new charts as soon as I make it back to the dyno! I have an appointment Tuesday 10/23. You can follow the development on our support forum at http://forums.maxhpkit.com

Regards,
Russell

Laneco · 10-17-2007, 06:43 AM

Every now and then I wake up with a wonderful feeling of self-worth, with the idea that I am a pretty darn smart girl.

Then I log onto Pelican and see something like this and I get jolted back to reality. Fact is that, well, compared to alot of you guys, I'm just not all that bright...

All joking aside, NICE JOB! I'll follow this thread for personal enlightenment!

angela (hairless monkey)

hcoles · 10-17-2007, 06:54 AM

Russell, can you add just a bit of context about how this all works? Is this PC software that one uses to modify the maps and then "reflash" the DME program? Is this some sort of DIY Steve Wong chip maker?

thanks,
-Henry
89 3.2

rberry951 · 10-17-2007, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laneco

Every now and then I wake up with a wonderful feeling of self-worth, with the idea that I am a pretty darn smart girl.

Then I log onto Pelican and see something like this and I get jolted back to reality. Fact is that, well, compared to alot of you guys, I'm just not all that bright...

All joking aside, NICE JOB! I'll follow this thread for personal enlightenment!

angela (hairless monkey)

I like to share info in the development process as the 944/951 people already know. Sometimes I share a bit too much and another vendor will take advantage, so now days I share a little less... But either way, if I can help the layperson understand this stuff a little better I'm happy to do so. Information is power!

Regards,
Russell

rberry951 · 10-17-2007, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcoles

Russell, can you add just a bit of context about how this all works? Is this PC software that one uses to modify the maps and then "reflash" the DME program? Is this some sort of DIY Steve Wong chip maker?

thanks,
-Henry
89 3.2

I tend to ramble on when I start talking about this stuff, and people end up not reading the posts because of it. At least that has been my experience in the last year. So I'll try to give the short version here...

The Maxtronic system is merely a switched chip emulator based on the Ostrich developed by Craig Moates of moates.net. It holds up to 8 chip images, and I include a no-start map and valet map for security. So you can have 6 other images at your disposal, selected by a digital pushbutton switch with LED readout. You can have different performance maps, stock map for emissions day, etc. The reason I chose the Ostrich for my development platform is that it can be changed during emulation. Meaning I can change the contents of the chip image while the car is running and the changes are active live.

Using this feature, I wrote MaxTune, the program you see in the screenshots above. Maxtune allows you to modify fuel/ignition maps, rev limiter, cold start fuel enrichment, and FQS scalars in real time, while the car is running. I use it for chip development, and also sell it for people who want to do their own tuning. Regardless of how 'close' I get with my chips, every car can be dialed in better on a dyno. So if you have this system, you can tune your own car. This carries more importance in the turbo world, as the turbo people are always modifying their cars, and have to keep buying new chips. When in most cases the modification only warrants minor fuel changes, which they can do themselves with my system.

Regards,
Russell

hcoles · 10-17-2007, 07:47 AM

Russell,
thanks, sorry to ask basic questions I was not aware of your product(s).
I went on a website I found matchhpkit.com. Does the system for 1989 911 3.2 cars connect inbetween the "chip" and the PWA to do the emulation or on the large breakout connector on the side of the DME box? Then I guess after all the maps are known per the user liking, they are "flashed"? and put on an updated chip? and the selector button is mounted and connected to where? I guess you have a ways to go before the 911 motronic system is ready, right? Also I see what looks like a replacement MAF on your site, will it mount and fit on my 3.2 motor?
Thanks,
-Henry
89 3.2 - pretty much stock

rberry951 · 10-17-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcoles

Russell,
thanks, sorry to ask basic questions I was not aware of your product(s).
I went on a website I found matchhpkit.com. Does the system for 1989 911 3.2 cars connect inbetween the "chip" and the PWA to do the emulation or on the large breakout connector on the side of the DME box? Then I guess after all the maps are known per the user liking, they are "flashed"? and put on an updated chip? and the selector button is mounted and connected to where? I guess you have a ways to go before the 911 motronic system is ready, right? Also I see what looks like a replacement MAF on your site, will it mount and fit on my 3.2 motor?
Thanks,
-Henry
89 3.2 - pretty much stock

Not a problem at all. The chip emulator has a cable with a connector on the end that looks like a chip. This plugs into the Motronic in place of the chip, the box gets mounted right next to the Motronic as this cable is short. The cable for the remote switch is 6' long, as is the USB cable you use to configure the box. The switch can be mounted anywhere within its range, I just have mine in my glove box. You can either leave the box in place forever, or do tuning and I can make you a chip from your image for 35 bucks. This is done by people who tune lots of different cars, they use the system to tune it, then put that tune on a chip and move the box to yet another car. I do not limit people on the usage of the box or software.

The Maxtronic and MaxTune are ready for the 3.2L 911 now, and a production chip/image will be available in about a week and a half.

Yes, I do carry the Scivision MAF unit for the 3.2L and 964 cars. I just ordered some of the units and will put one on my car as soon as they come in, then do another chip optimized for use with the MAF. The optimized chip will not cost any more, but will be paired with the MAF. I'm trying to make MAF options as affordable as possible. Example, each unit costs me 740 bucks, I sell them for 799, I'm not making any money on these, I just carry it as a convenience and count on people buying my chips/images for profit on them.

Again, this Tuesday I'm going back to the same dyno, same time of day, with similar weather conditions to do the comparison of the work I've done so far on the 911MAX chips. Since I have the Maxtronic in the car now I can do a pull with the stock image, then hit the button and do a pull with the 911MAX image. I started tuning this Sunday, and now am on version 10 of the 911MAX chip. I'm not wasting any time!

Regards,
Russell

Lorenfb · 10-17-2007, 08:23 AM

"The Maxtronic and MaxTune are ready for the 3.2L 911 now, and a production chip/image will be available in about a week and a half."

Since you're using the Pelican Parts website to aggressively promote these products,
it's assumed that these products will be sold thru Pelican Parts, right?

rberry951 · 10-17-2007, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"The Maxtronic and MaxTune are ready for the 3.2L 911 now, and a production chip/image will be available in about a week and a half."

Since you're using the Pelican Parts website to aggressively promote these products,
it's assumed that these products will be sold thru Pelican Parts, right?

Hey Loren,

Pelican carries my 951MAX products now, else I wouldn't be promoting my products here. I can't say if they will carry the 911MAX products as I haven't spoken to them about it since the product isn't ready yet. But the decision to carry 911MAX or not is entirely up to Pelican staff.

Regards,
Russell

Lorenfb · 10-17-2007, 08:53 AM

"I can't say if they will carry the 911MAX products as I haven't spoken to them about it since the product isn't ready yet."

Since this product isn't fully developed, then it might not result in any real differences to other
so-called performance chips. But if this is not the case, a comparative analysis will be posted
here of this product versus other chips, right?

jester911 · jester911's Garage

Oh brother. Here we go again.

Wash
Rinse
Repeat

rberry951 · 10-17-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"I can't say if they will carry the 911MAX products as I haven't spoken to them about it since the product isn't ready yet."

Since this product isn't fully developed, then it might not result in any real differences to other
so-called performance chips. But if this is not the case, a comparative analysis will be posted
here of this product versus other chips, right?

Not 100% sure what you're asking here. I don't have anything but stock chips to compare to. I'm not going to go out and buy up every other chip on the market to compare mine to. If someone wants to compare them independently I certainly welcome the opportunity to demonstrate the difference between my products and others.

When I got into the tuning 4 years ago for the 951, I did it for my own car, and had no intention at the time of marketing a product. I just wanted to get the best performance I could from my car. I tried a lot of other chips, but could never find the right mix of performance, driveability, and reliability. So I made my own. A little over a year ago I decided to market them. The reception of my products was nothing short of amazing. So I decided to continue on that path.

I've seen a lot of other aftermarket 944/951 chips, and sadly most of them are just tweaked copies of Autothoity or Welts. Some not even tweaked, people have just copied them and called them their own. Bad ju ju. My products are unique, in that I don't just ramp your WOT timing up and call it a performance chip. I am meticulous about every point in the power band, and spend a great deal of time working on the part throttle maps where many do nothing. The results speak for themselves. This will be the case in the 911 series as well.

Aside from chip development, my tuning products give people a new choice over stand alone systems. Again, this is more of a topic in the turbo world than in the NA world because the mods available for NA cars and the effects thereof are quite limited. I changed this. Now you have options.

Regards,
Russell

rberry951 · 10-17-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jester911

Oh brother. Here we go again.

Wash
Rinse
Repeat

Again? What did I miss?

Amail · 10-17-2007, 09:12 AM

Apparently Lorenfb has a talent for stinking up the joint whenever the topic of performance chips comes up. Not sure how the whole thing started, but it's entertaining to watch it flare up - like herpes.

Congratulations on your chips and programmer - seems like you're onto something pretty cool there!

jester911 · jester911's Garage

Russell, this has nothing to do with you. If you do a search about chips almost every thread that comes up(and there are many, trust me) has Loren coming in to say nothing but snide remarks but very seldom adding any thing positive or useful.

It has been going on for years.

rberry951 · 10-17-2007, 09:20 AM

LOL!! Okay, gotcha. There are a lot of people who are against 'chipping' in general. And I won't bother trying to convince them otherwise. I do what I do, they do what they do, everybody's happy.

I'm certainly no stranger to critique, when I first introduced my 944 products on another forum, even as a sponsor thereof, I got hit with more remarks then I could answer if I wanted to. The nay sayers came out in force saying my stuff was crap, and anyone who bought it was an idiot. Heh, well, over 400 happy idiots later, they don't do that to me anymore. I expected the same would happen in the 911 world, but it hasn't been the case at all. I've received quite a warm welcome to the fold on many levels, and I do sincerely appreciate that.

Regards,
Russell

MKEDF · MKEDF's Garage

Wow, Gentleman....

You are way to high....

Why dont you inlight us with your wisdom....and start from the bottom...

This software (I have a degree on software) and i am aware of what ever beauties can be done with it (datawarehouse and Artificial intelligence)...

This only applies to certain models of vehicles with certain high tech devices such as computers and chips that began to ivade our cars since late 70´s

So why dont you start over and inlight us with your wisdom, by telling us on a fresh thread what benefits can we achieve by using your insight and

software, this to help us elder car owners find the way to tech applications such as the ones you describe here.

May be our cars can not upgrade to that, may be we can, tell us how to, and in the middle of the way you can even sell some stuff to us..

Cheers

MiCk..

rberry951 · 10-17-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKEDF

Wow, Gentleman....

You are way to high....

Why dont you inlight us with your wisdom....and start from the bottom...

This software (I have a degree on software) and i am aware of what ever beauties can be done with it (datawarehouse and Artificial intelligence)...

This only applies to certain models of vehicles with certain high tech devices such as computers and chips that began to ivade our cars since late 70

That's why I like to share info, so the less informed can become more informed, and not have to filter through all the hype in the markets and mis-information. I typically post on the forums, and on my support forum the steps of progress in product development, not with the goal of selling the product, but of sharing useful information.

As far as computers go, the Bosch Motronic is OLD technology. It is not rocket science. The full code and data in these computers to control your engine is roughly one printed sheet of paper, that's it. It's not magic, and it's just not as complicated as people have tried to make it out to be in the past.

You are correct, my products only apply to cars with the Motronic computers at present time. At the moment I have no plan of updating pre-computer cars with any sort of computer system. But, plans tend to change. Basically I endeavor to develop what ever you tell me you need/want. But so far none of the pre-computer car people I've spoken with has expressed any interest in a computer system for their cars. Time brings change, who knows what the future will bring...

Regards,
Russell

87coupe · 87coupe's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKEDF

Wow, Gentleman....

You are way to high....

Why dont you inlight us with your wisdom....and start from the bottom...

This software (I have a degree on software) and i am aware of what ever beauties can be done with it (datawarehouse and Artificial intelligence)...

This only applies to certain models of vehicles with certain high tech devices such as computers and chips that began to ivade our cars since late 70´s

So why dont you start over and inlight us with your wisdom, by telling us on a fresh thread what benefits can we achieve by using your insight and

software, this to help us elder car owners find the way to tech applications such as the ones you describe here.

May be our cars can not upgrade to that, may be we can, tell us how to, and in the middle of the way you can even sell some stuff to us..

Cheers

MiCk..

Who's "... way to high"? lol

Lorenfb · 10-17-2007, 02:53 PM

"not with the goal of selling the product, but of sharing useful information."

Please, give us break!

By the way, there's no easier automotive aftermarket product to hype and sell
than a performance chip, i.e. Few if any are NOT willing to spend $300-$500
to buy into the chip hyperbole even if there's no real quantifiable results given
the resulting problematic issues.