Cheap wire shifter discussion

[Ionizer]

If you want to keep your 911 stock / looking stock stop reading.

My most recent idea is to put a Skoda / Golf style wire shifter in my 1973 911. Here are some pictures for comparison between $600 shift kits and the parts I can get from the salvage yard almost for free.

http://picasaweb.google.se/sjolund.daniel/911WireShifter

The Idea is to get all the benefits of a wire shifter but avoid paying $600.
Obvious benefits:
1, Placing the shifter anywhere I want, could even make the position adjustable to suit the drivers taste and arms.
2, Making the length of the throw adjustable. As "short shift" as i like.
3, Getting rid of the worn out original shift linkage.
4, Mounting the wire-holding-brackets to the gear box prevents gearbox movement interfering with shifting.

Anyone been down this road or is it just a bad idea?

[Mo_Gearhead]

Since the 911 uses a tubular 'rod' for shifting, I am confused how the two 'cable' ends will work on the 911 transmission?? More info. please.

[Ionizer]

First maybe I'm confusing wire with cable? These words I think is the opposite in Swedish.

Is it called Cable shifter?

As with the expensive kits, there must be some adapters mounted to the rod coming out of the gearbox. Transforming the two moving cables back into a pushing and a turning motion.

These are not complicated parts but since I dont have the car here today the details are not yet sorted out.

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: "These are not complicated parts"
_____________

Cable or wire ...this should prove interesting? I enjoy thoughtful fabrication projects.

Seems like one would have to be mounted at a 90 degree angle to get the 'rotating' function of the shifter shaft to work? Is there room in the tunnel for that?

[Ionizer]

90 degree angle or via a triangle lever with a bearing in the top end. Some parts might be sticking up above the floor to.

The lever seems to be a Porsche favorite problem solver. Just as the reverse lever that directs the brake pedal movement backwards to the booster/master cylinder.

[Ionizer]

Had to get som Ideas out of my head, this is what it looks like right now.

http://picasaweb.google.se/sjolund.daniel/911WireShifter/photo#5101680372481790514

Hope this makes some sence?

[Ionizer]

Patent pending

[Mo_Gearhead]

I'm visualizing the hollow, steel, one piece shift rod in the 911 tunnel.

If you have ever pushed/pulled on the trans. shifter end (with the rod disconnected) it takes some force to move it in/out of the transmission.

Pulling with the cable/wire I can see. Not sure about pushing?

Hummm, well I wish you much luck with that. Be sure to keep us updated.

[TimT]

Boxters, Caymans, 996,997, and lots of other cars use cable shifters.

here is someone who has come up with a solution

http://www.etischer.com/914cableshift.html

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: "here is someone who has come up with a solution"
_______

And the problem was.....?

Forgive me, but in that install I see, fabricated steel plates, levers, heim joints, cables, etc. (how much additional weight?) ...to serve what purpose?

Are you really going to tell me that is a more 'precise' shifter than a P-car comes with? Or is this just one of those exercises, IE: I will ...because I can?

[TimT]

Obvious benefits:
1, Placing the shifter anywhere I want, could even make the position adjustable to suit the drivers taste and arms.
2, Making the length of the throw adjustable. As "short shift" as i like.
3, Getting rid of the worn out original shift linkage.
4, Mounting the wire-holding-brackets to the gear box prevents gearbox movement interfering with shifting.

Ionizer has come up with some good points...for a start

And then of course...Boxter,Cayman,996,997 use cable shifters, and they all still manipulate a lil ole rod that comes out of the tranny..

I had the pleasure of driving a students 914 tail shifterwhich had a well thought out cable shifter which was adapted from a fwd Asian make, I have forgotten which...

The car shifted much more surely than a stock tail shifter..


and the link I provided was for the original poster, who is:

Placing the shifter anywhere I want

Making the length of the throw adjustable. As "short shift" as i like

Getting rid of the worn out original shift linkage.

Mounting the wire-holding-brackets to the gear box prevents gearbox movement interfering with shifting.[

and also trying to save a few bucks, and doing something a bit different...

The GT3RS we own was a LeMans Podium finisher, it to had a cable shift gearbox..Perhaps Porsche knew something when they moved all of there production vehicles to cable vs. tube shifters?

[Walt Fricke]

Mo

Take a look at the 914 shift linkage back at the transmission. Complicated and prone to problems in stock form. Trying a cable shifter makes sense. Even more so if you are installing a 915 tranny in a 914-6.

You can push on a Morse cable just fine because it is contained in a tube for its flexible length, with solid rods at the ends to do the pushing.

Now for a 911 this may be a solution in search of a problem.

Walt Fricke

[TimT]

[hijack]

Walt did you ever send us the bearing to be grooved?

[/hijack]

[jwetering]

Nice thinking outside the box...but

I can see how it could improve the 914 set up but the 911 shifter always worked like a charm for me (once the bushing etc were replaced and the shift rod properly adjusted that is).

There's also the WEVO set up I tried in my jeff alton's car. suhweet.

[Ionizer]

The original 911 shifter works fine but there is still lots of room for improvement.

The biggest issue for me being the placement to far down and to far away. And to be honest, the original shifter is hideous.

Of course, most of all I'm looking for something to build. Some nice mechanical problem solving for recreational purposes. Thats why I bought this old 911.

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: "Now for a 911 this may be a solution in search of a problem."
________________

My point exactly. The thread was started as an early 911 shifter remake. I do not disagree that other, later model 911's or other models (914's ) may benefit from cables.

Will watch the progress. Good luck.

[Walt Fricke]

Ionizer

I well understand the desire to build something, and even more to design something.

Fabcar and Hargett (and Porsche, back in the 935 days I think) have gone the "raise it up and move it backward, using a slightly different method of causing the tube to move as needed" route. Perhaps cables and a bunch of bell cranks and whatnot will add even more locational flexibility. Maybe even let the emergency brake and heater adjusters be easily accessible?

I'm currently cogitating:

1) installing a hydraulic pull slave cylinder to convert an ordinary 915 to a hydraulic clutch (I have the slave cylinder, and the three master cylinder setup up front, just haven't installed the slave. Even squeezed 3 MCs into a modified floorpan level pedal cluster);

2) Using the same MC and a push slave to use the 915 with a "push" pressure plate - i.e., a Tilton style 5.5" clutch, which is really why I started 1) before throwout issues sidelined the little clutch project. WEVO took a different and simpler approach to this, but this route might involve even less modification given the presence of the hydraulics up front.

3) Creating a wheel speed governed set of gear lockouts for the 915, using solenoids at the shift tower. Wouldn't it be nice if you simply could not engage too low a gear? With my spring loaded shifter (wants to be in the 3d/4th plane) I am pretty sure I won't hit 1st or 2d by mistake any more. But at Brainerd I realized I had to force myself to think about the shift into 5th. A co driver of my track car once hit 3d when 5th was intended, and the spring action would cause a sloppy 5th shift to end up in 3d fairly easily. Especially when I had initiated a draft pass, only to need to shift when about even with the car ahead. I built the electronics for this 10 or more years ago and that seems to work even though the pulse count off of six CV joint bolts is at rather a low frequency for my simple comparator circuit, but since then have doodled a dozen or so ways to make the electro mechanical part work, and fit space and strength considerations, and be fail-safe so you could shift without it if something quit working.

I'm generally happy with my regular (though modified) shifter. The factory RS change shortens things nicely where short is needed (fore and aft), coupler bushings that are round and tight on the cross pin, spring loading into the 3/4 plane, and a 1/2 "hook" a la Seine Systems have made it feel very predictable and tight at little cost. But maybe one of the raised shifter systems, or even your cable system when you get it figured out, would offer opportunities for simple and secure methods of locking gears out that just blocking "gates" on the shift tower do not. So I, for one, will be interested in your progress.

Walt

[davec]

I currently have a Boxter trans in my 914 with a cable shifter. I'd like to keep the cable shifter when I put my 915 Velios in. It's another daunting winter project.

[shbop]

If you're going to install this unit, I'd suggest using Felsted Cables. They are, by far, the best available. The difference between a Felsted and anything else, is night and day. No affiliation, just many years of experience in the marine and aviation industry with cable actuators.

[Jeff Hail]

Actually cable shifting has come far. Better cables, better designs. We can credit the offroad guys (such as Brandwood Cars and mid engine guru Jim Patrick of Patrick Motorsports) that have perfected cable shifters.
The offroad crew puts those rails thru a lot more than a street car or even a road racer is ever put through. Even Toyota is using them on the factory supported long distance endurance racers. Anything can fail even a Vellios or a Wevo. Adapting them for mid engine has been around longer than most people think.

Just like a shift rod unless it is properly setup and kept rigid it won't work correctly.

I drove a sand rail with a 3.2 and a 930 trans with the same setup as the 915 pictured (courtesy Patrick Motorsports). I was impressed. This was before I looked underneath and noticed the cable shift setup. I liked it so much I ordered one for a 914 /6 build.









If you have ever seen a heavy Morris cable they are thick. They are used on everything from industrial equipment, you name it. The cable itself runs inside of a liner that is inside of a very rigid housing. Think of it as a clutch cable as thick as your thumb. You can push a lot with something that thick. Keeping it rigid with minimal flexibilty is the key to push/pull cables.

If Boxers have them they are good enough for the rest of us!

Going back to 911 with a 915...stick with the rod system. Everything is in a straight plane all the way back to the hockey stick. Easy, simple, and it works.