cheap 996 vs not cheap carrera

[redstack]

Ok so I recently saw a 99 911 with 109K miles for $22K and thought HMM, I fit better in the 996's and they are newer and such. 109 K wouldn't bother me at all in a SC or later. But first gen and all. Now for the same money you can get a pretty nice 88 Carrera. So the question is where would all you knowledgeable people put the money?

Base use is maybe 4k miles per year, as much autox as possible and hopefully a few track/ DE's and such. I live in Fl so working AC really does count for something.

Ok please share your wisdom with me.. R

[dd74]

Carrera. Every Porsche mechanic I've spoken with in L.A. has said the 996s are trouble. And these guys make money off such trouble.

[Racerbvd]

I have turned down a few straight trade offers of 996s for my 88 Carrera.

[Car Guru]

I was in your same boat, as a kid I always wanted an '86-'89 Carrera Cabriolet etc.. But later got bitten by the tech-bug of owning a modern 911, especially after driving my old bosses '02 996 TT X-50. However in contrast when I worked for a body shop while in college we used to be the prefferd paint shop for the local P-Car dealer and would get 996 cars in all the time for work. I recall the day my boss was like can you take that '99 Carrera back to the dealer. I didn't hesitate and was looking forward to the ultimate treat. Wrong that car was so boring and so far from what I expected a true 911 to be. It felt boulbus for a smallish sport focused car, didn't have that mechanical sound I recall from the air-cooled years, lacked good steering feel, the seats were not as suportive and in a weird spot compared to the last 993 I sat in. It was also somewhat underpowered feeling from what I thought even a Carrera should feel like and the interior looked and felt as cheap as the one in the 2002 Jetta I drove daily of the same vintage. In short I drive an '88 Cabby I picked up a little over a month ago and it's everything I invisioned and remebered the cars to be as a kid, a 996 Carrera would smoke it all day long stock for stock, but the '88 has a way of making you feel like you are having way more fun than you are. What I've learned to like and wasn't aware of at the age of 12 was how raw and engaging these 1980's cars are. You could not give me a mint 200 mile 996 Carrera in trade for my 60K '88 Carrera. I would however give my soul for a TT X-50 996 though entirely different animal.

-Ryan

[redstack]

All right I'm seeing a trend here. Just going to have to convince a couple of friends to let me drive their Carrera's to see if I really fit. I'll post another question concering that. Thanks guys

[450knotOffice]

Depends. I have both and love them both for what each of them are.

The 996 is a he11 of a car (don't let anyone here tell you otherwise). It's quick, it's fast, it's very nimble and has that traditional weight-in-the-back handling feel. It's got great steering feel and feedback through the helm. If the interior has the full-leather option, it's a nice place to spend a lot of time in (the plasticky (sp?) non-leather interiors are a bit cheap looking and feeling). It's also quiet when not on the gas, yet has a nice flat-6 growl when you get on it and zing it to it's 7200 RPM rev limit. The '99's have the mechanical throttle, as opposed to the e-gas that my 2000 and laster cars have, which many say gives you slightly better throttle response. Most of the engines that are still out there (especially one with 109K miles) have proven to be very trouble free and can (and do) handle track work with absolutely no issues at all. Mine has done probably 700 miles of track duty in the last 14 months, most of those miles between 5000 and 7000 RPM. On the straights, I walk past my friends' Carreras with ease and usually end up about 10-15 mph faster by the braking point.

They are certainly heavier (mine weighs 3140 pounds with a full tank of gas) and most will agree that they don't have the same beauty and sex-appeal as the older 911's. I agree. I love my old, black '84. It's just so damn beautiful to look at and feels like a go-kart at 2500 pounds.

The earlier cars are great for weekend and track use.

You can't go wrong with either one, really.

[450knotOffice]

DD74, here we go again. I believe you when you say every mechanic you have spoken with says they are trouble. However, there are many, many Porsche mechanics out there who think that the 996's are great cars (because they not wearing their air-cooled blinders). Talk to Hergesheimer Motorsports or Vision. These guys know these cars and will give the BIG eye roll when you mention the supposed problems with these cars.

[K. Roman]

Check my sig. I absolutely love this car. My main problems right now: The gas gauge is incorrect. It has a problem fueling all the way. Also, sometimes my spoiler doesn't retract when slowing from seventy. Another problem is a check brake light that comes on as soon as I back out of the garage, although the brakes are fine. Could be a worn sensor.
But, never any mechanical problems, and the drive to and from San Jose to SF via 280 is a dream!

[stevemfr]

Hey all!
Newby to the forum, but def not to Porsche!

I agree w/Scott completely. The water cooled 911's are excellent cars - do not let anyone tell you otherwise. My biggest prob w/the 996 was always that if you had put a Celica Supra badge on it, it would more or less have fit. Sort of cool looking, but with its slab-sides, a very poor follow-up to the 993. But the drive - and I've heard all sorts of BS and driven air cooled 911's that felt like poop - a nice 996 will put a big grin on your face. And after looking into the 996's motor troubles in-depth last year, the consensus I got was if one of the earlier motors are going to make trouble, its usually befor 60k. If the motor survives that, it'll be fine. On top of that, while not cheap, there are fixes for the layshaft/cyl probs.

It all comes down to what you want. Performance-wise, I think you can do a bigger bang for the buck with a 996. If your heart is set on a real Porsche, you might have to stick with an air cooler - or move up to a 997 GT-3

cheers,
Steve

[spuggy]

Hey, believe what you like - people tend to do that anyway.

My wrenches also buy and sell later cars. They work on all of them, from 914s & 924's (they had a real Carerra GTS in recently) to Cayennes.

Recently I walked into their workshops and they had no fewer than six blown-up and torn down Boxster and 996 motors on the bench. Given that they don't really specialise in motor rebuilds and have two engine stands, you might gauge how welcome this was. LOL

I also learnt that the GT2, GT3 and Turbo bottom ends are still derived from the air-cooled castings. They apparently don't blow up. I thought that was interesting.

Guy who built my 930 motor told me that my car has already lived longer than he thinks any 996 will - that he seriously doubts that you'll ever see a 30 year old running 996. He's also of the belief that, given basic care and barring mishaps, my car will still be running when 996s are pretty rare.

Sure, buy a 996 with good A/C as a 4k-a-year toy. Air-cooleds should be driven.

[Wickd89]

Originally Posted by Car Guru

I was in your same boat, as a kid I always wanted an '86-'89 Carrera Cabriolet etc.. But later got bitten by the tech-bug of owning a modern 911, especially after driving my old bosses '02 996 TT X-50. However in contrast when I worked for a body shop while in college we used to be the prefferd paint shop for the local P-Car dealer and would get 996 cars in all the time for work. I recall the day my boss was like can you take that '99 Carrera back to the dealer. I didn't hesitate and was looking forward to the ultimate treat. Wrong that car was so boring and so far from what I expected a true 911 to be. It felt boulbus for a smallish sport focused car, didn't have that mechanical sound I recall from the air-cooled years, lacked good steering feel, the seats were not as suportive and in a weird spot compared to the last 993 I sat in. It was also somewhat underpowered feeling from what I thought even a Carrera should feel like and the interior looked and felt as cheap as the one in the 2002 Jetta I drove daily of the same vintage. In short I drive an '88 Cabby I picked up a little over a month ago and it's everything I invisioned and remebered the cars to be as a kid, a 996 Carrera would smoke it all day long stock for stock, but the '88 has a way of making you feel like you are having way more fun than you are. What I've learned to like and wasn't aware of at the age of 12 was how raw and engaging these 1980's cars are. You could not give me a mint 200 mile 996 Carrera in trade for my 60K '88 Carrera. I would however give my soul for a TT X-50 996 though entirely different animal.

-Ryan

+1

I do find myself dreaming quite a bit about a 2001 996 Turbo. The stats just blow me away...

Originally Posted by redstack

Ok so I recently saw a 99 911 with 109K miles for $22K and thought HMM, I fit better in the 996's and they are newer and such.

You can find 50K mile 996's for $25K easily. About 10% early 996's have motors that lunch prematurely. A replacement motor is aroung $10K. Costs about the same to rebuild an air cooled 6. A 996 is the best deal out there.

[EarlyPorsche]

Proper maintenance and it will last just fine. Remember that its a Porsche 911, the best Porsche engineers worked on it....it can't be that bad.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/car/518995977.html

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/car/518590614.html

Here are a couple that show you high and low mileage are not far in price. Incidentally both in the same area, best way to search craigslist is to make a search on one of the search engines that search all cities at once and limit your search to 99 and 00.

[e p slick]

Forget the 996 mumbo jumbo and buy a 930. You will never regret it.
EPS - Tucson

[89911]

I'll base my answer purely on looks and ignore the performance issue. The 996 just plain bores me. Half Boxster, Half Carrera. There are plenty of cars out that are better deals for the money if all you want if performance. Really, if it didn't have "Porsche"on it, would you even consider it?

[the]

Even if you want a 996, $22K for a '99 with 109K isn't a great bargain.

[WPOZZZ]

I sold my 99 996 with 89k on it for $24k back in July. My mechanic said those motors are ticking time bombs. It is a great car that is deceptively quick and extremely nimble, but I love my Carrera because it is so much more engaging.

[redstack]

This has been great, one thing is I guess I should check with my local Pcar guy, the closest dealer is 50 miles away in Mobile. So if Mr. Walker said he won't touch a 996 that would be a factor. And for the record I do enjoy working on my own cars as much as possible. And I'm not sure how much a guy can or should do on his own on a 996. I mean Brakes, oil change, plugs. That sort of stuff I like to do, change a clutch or mess with AC not set up for it. And the main reason I don't drive it alot is that I am only in Fl for 4-6 months a year, I don't commute to work by car, only by plane. When I'm home I want to jump in and drive to Road Atlanta for a Nasa track day or Roebling Road, Babers etc. And Autox every chance I get. Up to Ashville for some Blue Ridge time. Drive hard and wind it up baby. I love the sound of a flat six, at rpm.

so I guess some will depend on what shows up on my doorstep and some what the guy who will be doing the most serious work says. For what it's worth if a 996 came my way I don't think I would kick it out of bed for eating crackers, but I would also be happy to run an older Carrera for a while.

Thanks again guys. Richard

[jwetering]

See my sig - I sold my pure sport modified 911 earlier this year and bought a 2002 996. Frankly - I don't think I could go back to air cooled, except for the nostalgic factor.

The 996 is every inch a Porsche. It goes like one, handles like one, looks great to my eye (seal grey on black helps here). My 911 was set up for the track, and I tracked it plenty. The 996 bone stock is at least as fast, if not faster, and those of you who think it drives like a Lexus, well I don't believe you've actually driven a 996 except maybe around the block, it sure doesn't sound like you've done and sport driving in one.

It is a *snap* to work on. Oil changes, transmission oil changes, brakes, haven't done the spark plugs yet, but I've looked at the procedure and it's easier than in a 911. Don't be a fool - the cars are simple to do routine maintenance on. Any suggestion to the contrary is plain dopey.

What you have here redstack is an air cooled 911 forum, where people prefer air cooled 911s..ask the same question on the Rennlist 996 forum and you'll get a much different answer..to make the point a little stronger, try asking the question on a Corvette forum.

Now, DO NOT GET ME WRONG ! - I am a HUGE air cooled 911 fan. I will absolutely have another one someday, but as stated, it will be for the old school factor, not the performance.

Finally, buy the car you really want. If you buy well, you can't really go wrong.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by stevemfr

If your heart is set on a real Porsche, you might have to stick with an air cooler...

This pretty much says it all.

However, without a doubt, the 996s are fast and I imagine handle well. Still, with more or less disposable engines that no one but a certified Porsche mechanic with a lift can work on other than routine maintenance, DIY guys should not apply. I've heard in some cases, even Porsche dealerships don't trust 996s for trade ins. I guess that's why in Studio City along Ventura boulevard, there's literally truckloads of 996 and Boxsters for sale from second party car dealers. Now, try to find an air-cooled 911 of any model year around these same dealerships, and it will be virtually impossible.

Personally, I'd wait 'til the 997s get down to the low $20Ks. In the least, it's a better looking car than the 996s while also employing a more powerful engine.