cheap 996 vs not cheap carrera

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by dd74

...no one but a certified Porsche mechanic with a lift can work on other than routine maintenance, DIY guys should not apply.

See my post above. Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you don't know if your a$$ is bored or punched.

I changed the oil in my 996 last time without even jacking the car up....and it's lowered! The brake pads were changed in an hour. Same old late model Porsche brakes. We're not talking about the space shuttle here guys...

I will agree the M96 motors are not known for their reliability, but frankly, the problems have been exaggerated on the internet and many air cooled motors aren't any better at all. ( I'm referring to the 2.7 and even the early 3.6 motors). As has been stated 10E6 times already, a new crate motor costs about the same as a tear down and rebuild of any air cooled motor, maybe less.

I understand though - air cooled guys are air cooled guys, just like 356 guys are 356 guys and 944 guys are 944 guys. There's no problem with that.

[Tims924s]

ALL Porsches are good reliable cars, but taste really matters on the 88 Vs 996.. If you like Modern Water cooled Porsche then get a 996... But if you are like me and like the classic Porsche should with the air cooled cars then the 88 is awesome.
It reminds me of me and my father fighting on what is better, I always say the Classic Soul or the older Porsche is better I always say the air cooled Porsches are better(1998 and earlier), but my father is like how can you like the old frog looking cars when you can have the sporty fast looking Modern Porsches(1999 and Later)......
Of course man can never say which is better they are both PERFECT cars but Taste is what you should judge your desicion on ,,, GET ONLY WHAT YOU LOVE.... If you get the one you really love then you will always have a twinkle in your eye and your heart race when you see the car

[dd74]

Originally Posted by jwetering

Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you don't know if your a$$ is bored or punched.

Hit a nerve, didn't I? Sorry, but Porsche, on this one, didn't trust its own product, fraught as they are with cheap VW and Audi parts. As I said, there's been so many problems with the 996, the dealerships have in many cases refused trade ins of the cars.

Ass bored, huh? Is that a conclusion you come to while being "stroked?"

[dd74]

Originally Posted by jwetering

I will agree the M96 motors are not known for their reliability

But you still stand by them, huh? $10K later, and in lieu of 3.0 or 3.2 300,000 mile reliability? Gawd, whatever!

[rnln]

... because the frog looking eyes and the fat ladies looking butts is exactly what I want on the car :lol:

Originally Posted by Tims924s

ALL Porsches are good reliable cars, but taste really matters on the 88 Vs 996.. If you like Modern Water cooled Porsche then get a 996... But if you are like me and like the classic Porsche should with the air cooled cars then the 88 is awesome.
It reminds me of me and my father fighting on what is better, I always say the Classic Soul or the older Porsche is better I always say the air cooled Porsches are better(1998 and earlier), but my father is like how can you like the old frog looking cars when you can have the sporty fast looking Modern Porsches(1999 and Later)......
Of course man can never say which is better they are both PERFECT cars but Taste is what you should judge your desicion on ,,, GET ONLY WHAT YOU LOVE.... If you get the one you really love then you will always have a twinkle in your eye and your heart race when you see the car

[wolf]

Originally Posted by jwetering

As has been stated 10E6 times already, a new crate motor costs about the same as a tear down and rebuild of any air cooled motor, maybe less.

No more. Prices have doubled for a new 996 engine. They were ofcourse being sold at cost-price as kind of damage control.

A lot of myths being thrown around here.

Originally Posted by Tims924s

ALL Porsches are good reliable cars,

Porsche reliability - that's a joke. Porsche's ALWAYS have something broken. Want reliability, get a Honda. Porsches are for driving experience, status, or penis extension.

Originally Posted by dd74

But you still stand by them, huh? $10K later, and in lieu of 3.0 or 3.2 300,000 mile reliability? Gawd, whatever!

DD, you've been around here long enough and know better than that. 3.0's need head studs @ 100K miles, 3.2's need top ends by 125K miles. That's more the rule than the exception. That's always $4K, but usually goes along with a complete refresh at $8 to $10K.

Originally Posted by wolf

No more. Prices have doubled for a new 996 engine. They were ofcourse being sold at cost-price as kind of damage control.

A factory rebuilt 3.4 996 motor can be purchased for $8K with a good core trade in at US dealers - still. costs $2K - $3K to transplant.

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by dd74

Hit a nerve, didn't I? Sorry, but Porsche, on this one, didn't trust its own product, fraught as they are with cheap VW and Audi parts. As I said, there's been so many problems with the 996, the dealerships have in many cases refused trade ins of the cars.

My post was in response to your statement that you can't DIY a 996. The 996 can be DIY'd as easily or more easily than a 911. One might struggle a bit with an engine rebuild, but because the valve train etc is so much more complex than a 911....that's how they make 320 hp with excellent fuel economy and superlative driveability though. Not the cars fault.

What kind of DIY are you doing that you think you can't do on a 996? Nuts and bolts hold the parts together. Porsche provides a proper jack point at each corner. A hand held light, a few wrenches...You'll have to clarify this for me.

As far as dealerships taking 996's on trade...have you brought your 911 in to a dealer lately for a fair trade-in value assessment ?

I'll ignore the comment about 300K miles on an untouched 3.2. That's been covered.

And again - I'm not slamming air cooled 911 - that would be heresy. Just that air cooled guys slamming 996 gets my goat...I used to be one of them, but then I saw the light.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by jwetering

A factory rebuilt 3.4 996 motor can be purchased for $8K with a good core trade in at US dealers - still. costs $2K - $3K to transplant.

AFAIK Porsche doesn't rebuild 3.4. They recommend replacement w/ new 3.6; and those engines are no longer cheap...

[JeremyD]

Wow - a e-pissing match the day after christmas.

Go drive both - see which one talks to you.

To me the 996 - driving at 100 mph feels like you are doing 55. No drama - not much sound - "pull over an place your hands on the hood of the car"

The earlier cars (1989 and earlier) tend to have more drama - drive at 100 mph and it feels like you are doing 150. Noise like a sewing machine behind you - road noise, wind noise... run over a quarter and you can tell if it's heads or tails.

Again, it depends on what you are looking for but really only you can decide.

[wolf]

e-pissing


oh well luft vs wasser...

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by wolf

AFAIK Porsche doesn't rebuild 3.4. They recommend replacement w/ new 3.6; and those engines are no longer cheap...

Over here they are starting to rebuild the M96 engines where possible. Up until now it has been strictly a replacement program.

The shop foreman I spoke with said that Porsche is only just now letting the local techs into the engines and are supplying parts and tech support where they didn't before. There have been a number of articles written already on the rebuild work being done. The shop in England has been sleeving these engines for a while now. There's a fix also for the intermediate shaft problem.

Yes....even a DIY could do it, but they'd be better off buying a crate motor and installing it themselves. Once again - I'm not sure why people think this is more complicated than dropping and reinstalling a 911 motor. Unplug the wiring, support the engine and trans, undo the mounting hardware, lower the engine...installation is the reverse of removal. If anything Porsche will have made this procedure more friendly over the years. What am I missing here?

I have agreed and continue to agree that the M96 motors weren't reliable at first, the later ones are better and the remanufactured ones are plain good from what I understand. Very typical Porsche. I'm over on the Rennlist 996 board a lot. We haven't heard about any engine failure for a long time now.

Redstack - if you're still following this thread, don't buy the cheapest early 996 you can find - that would be risky. Also don't buy the cheapest 911 you can find...this is obvious.

If you like the looks of the 996, don't mind guys like dd74 turning their nose up at you, enjoy the attention from the ladies, want to have a truly world class modern driving experience, and don't want to spend a whole lot of time tinkering with your car then buy a 2002 or later 996 that hasn't been beat up. You will love it.

If you want a classically beautiful 911 which will impress the guys but discourage the girls, are keen on a more visceral old fashioned driving experience, and like fixing age related stuff like windshield wiper motors and CV joints, then buy a 911. You will love it.

Simple as that.

The 911 is an old Porsche, the 996 is a new Porsche. That's the difference.

[84CarreraSC]

The last time I checked they both say PORSCHE on them right? Buy them both, drive them for a while, and then which ever one you like more keep it and send the other one to me.....I have plenty of room in my garage for one more.

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

Wow - a e-pissing match the day after christmas.

Go drive both - see which one talks to you.

To me the 996 - driving at 100 mph feels like you are doing 55. No drama - not much sound - "pull over an place your hands on the hood of the car"

The earlier cars (1989 and earlier) tend to have more drama - drive at 100 mph and it feels like you are doing 150. Noise like a sewing machine behind you - road noise, wind noise... run over a quarter and you can tell if it's heads or tails.

Again, it depends on what you are looking for but really only you can http://forums.pelicanparts.com/smileys/smileys4.htm#decide.

Oh yeah - I forgot - Merry Christmas everyone!!

I'm not usually into this arguing over the internet thing. IIRC, it's like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win....

We're all saying the same thing with respect to wasser vs luft. I'm just trying to add the bit about DIY. That did hit a nerve....because it was such a stupid thing to say...stupid ol' dd74, damn near hurt my feelings.

[wolf]

The bit about rebuilding 3.4 is new to me. Thx and enjoy kerstmis. Dutch ancestors btw?

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by wolf

The bit about rebuilding 3.4 is new to me. Thx and enjoy kerstmis. Dutch ancestors btw?

I was born in Rotterdam actually. We emigrated to Canada when I was 7 yrs old..back in 1972 Ik spreek Nederlandse vrei wel, maar ik kan naaturlijke niet good in Nederlandse schrijven.

Here's another bit...I'm actually selling my 996 because I've been assigned to work in Wales UK for at least three years. The company pays for a car, but because the steering wheels are on the wrong side of the car in the UK, I can't take my own car with me. I'm going to end up in some generic sedan for the next three years. I've been thinking to buy a "proper" air cooled 911 to take with me though, for weekends and track days. I'd buy it in the USA because cars are cheap cheap cheap.

Selling a 996 in this market on the other hand is murder!

[Car Guru]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

The earlier cars (1989 and earlier) tend to have more drama - drive at 100 mph and it feels like you are doing 150. Noise like a sewing machine behind you - road noise, wind noise... run over a quarter and you can tell if it's heads or tails.

Honestly because of this is why a pristine '88 is sitting in my garage As a kid my dad would pull along side these cars and drop the window so we could hear that wonderful sewing machine sound, now I just let the top down and it's bliss.

-Ryan

[wolf]

Prices for old 911's are indeed cheap. More and more I hear of people importing them into Europe. Ofcourse bumpers and headlights need immediate repair.

So you will probably visit Rotterdam in the near future?

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by wolf

Prices for old 911's are indeed cheap. More and more I hear of people importing them into Europe. Ofcourse bumpers and headlights need immediate repair.

So you will probably visit Rotterdam in the near future?

I most probably will visit Rotterdam to show the kids where "they" came from.

I'm also thinking of shipping my 996 to Europe for sale there. I won't be surprised if my 996 simply will not sell here, for any price. For the record, I have a friend here (his name is de Vries actually) who has been trying to sell a very nice 911SC (silver on black) for very reasonable money, and he's having no luck at all either.

Maybe I'll bring them both with me!

[wolf]

Jasper, just for fun check the prices in Germany. Market for 996 is around 30-40K euro here. Instead of 25?K dollars it could be lucrative.

http://www.mobile.de/home/index.html